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World in chaos

InChrist

Free4ever
Yes, they are the only way to feed the world. It is sad that you are spreading propoganda about that as well.

Did you read that article? Did you notice that it was published by a political lobby group that is attacking the Grocery Manufacturers Association? It is an article by fringe radicals.


It may be the only way to feed the world with with food for corporate profit that is destructive both to one's health and the environment, but I think most people would prefer safe, real food if they understood the implications of GMO crops.

The article was not published by a lobby group. It was written by Dr Mercola who has been a health advocate for years.
 

columbus

yawn <ignore> yawn
Actually, I do think better recording and documentation capabilities come into play. Just posted the numbers for Bumyip who has been insisting there is no data on numbers prior to the 20th century.
I think calling you a liar was wrong and uncalled for.
That said, the frequency and confidence that religionists make claims that are somewhere between demonstrably wrong and misleading is striking. It is not that I care about your opinions on seismology. But to use the word "data" referring to 1000 year old records about earthquakes makes me unlikely to believe you about other stuff. Like Jesus.

Tom
 

InChrist

Free4ever
Those figures show the number of earthquakes recorded over given periods - not the number of earthquakes.

What kind of a nonsensical statement is that?

Those figures are the number of earthuakes that were reported - not the number that occured. They are just the earthqukes that occured for which we have records.

We do not have the data for the number of earthquakes, because as you know there were no seismic recording stations.
[/quote]

Nevertheless, the figures are still the available numbers and data on past earthquakes.
 

InChrist

Free4ever
Then you'd agree that it's very possible that the frequency of earthquakes has not increased but been somewhat consistent? Which would mean there's no sign of end times after all.


I would agree that is a possibility and I have already stated previously that increased frequency of earthquakes may not be an end time sign, but that does not discount other indications.
 

Bunyip

pro scapegoat
InChrist

You gave the figure of 32 earthquakes between 1000 and 1250, and 316 from 1850 to 1903.

According to the USGS the average number of earthquakes in any given year is in the MILLIONS. Although even with modern detection we generally detect about 20,000 of those millions.

So your data shows the NUMBER OF REPORTED EARTHQUAKES, which for 1000-1250 is only 32 out of about 750,000,000 earthquakes over that period.

Can you see the difference between 32 and 3/4 of a billion? THAT is why you do not know if there is an increase.
In fact what evidence we do have shows the contrary over recent years. The USGS states that the number of large earthquakes is roughly constant HOWEVER in 2000 there were 22,256 recorded earthquakes, and in 2012 there were 16,667.
Which is a DECREASE, not an increase.


Source: USGS Earthquake facts and statistics.
 

Bunyip

pro scapegoat
What kind of a nonsensical statement is that?
Well the difference between recorded earthquakes and the number of earthquakes between 1000 and 1250 is 32 RECORDED EARTHQUAKES and roughly 750,000,000 eartquakes in total.

Are you sure that the difference between 32 and 3/4 of a billion is just nonsensical nit picking?
Nevertheless, the figures are still the available numbers and data on past earthquakes.

Except those figures do not show the number of earthquakes, they show the number of earthquakes we have records of. Which is two completely different things.
 

InChrist

Free4ever
I think calling you a liar was wrong and uncalled for.
That said, the frequency and confidence that religionists make claims that are somewhere between demonstrably wrong and misleading is striking. It is not that I care about your opinions on seismology. But to use the word "data" referring to 1000 year old records about earthquakes makes me unlikely to believe you about other stuff. Like Jesus.

Tom

Okay. I really appreciate your thoughts. How about records or information? I thought "data" just meant something like...facts or information used usually to calculate, analyze, or plan something.


 

Bunyip

pro scapegoat
It may be the only way to feed the world with with food for corporate profit that is destructive both to one's health and the environment, but I think most people would prefer safe, real food if they understood the implications of GMO crops.

The article was not published by a lobby group. It was written by Dr Mercola who has been a health advocate for years.

It was written by Mercola, but published by a political lobby group attacking the Grocery Manufacturers Association. Read the rest of the page you directed me to.
 

columbus

yawn <ignore> yawn
Okay. I really appreciate your thoughts. How about records or information? I thought "data" just meant something like...facts or information used usually to calculate, analyze, or plan something.



That was not the point of my post. Religious people often say things that are not true. I'm not talking about lying, the problem I have with that is that usually they sincerely believe it. Just like you believe in Jesus and the end times and increasing seismic activity.
I don't mean any slam against you personally. It is what I have come to expect from most religious people of all persuasions. It has convinced me that nobody knows anything important about God, but they will believe almost anything if it supports their religion of choice.
Therefore religion is fiction.

Tom

And as for your post, I see data as a subset of information which is a subset of records. Records can be vague and misleading. Data is the most rigorously determined information.

Tom
 

InChrist

Free4ever
It was written by Mercola, but published by a political lobby group attacking the Grocery Manufacturers Association. Read the rest of the page you directed me to.

It was written and published on Dr. Mercola's website: Mercola.com Dr. Joseph Mercola . He simply included the Youtube about GMO's and the Grocery Manufactures Association in his article.
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
A long time ago earthquakes were evident if they caused destruction and a loss of life. Now-a-days there are machines for measuring them. An earthquake in a remote place on earth with no damage to society is on the list. Isn't it? a long time ago those earthquakes in remote places, or the slight earthquakes that cause no damage at all would not be counted.
 

InChrist

Free4ever
That was not the point of my post. Religious people often say things that are not true. I'm not talking about lying, the problem I have with that is that usually they sincerely believe it. Just like you believe in Jesus and the end times and increasing seismic activity.
I don't mean any slam against you personally. It is what I have come to expect from most religious people of all persuasions. It has convinced me that nobody knows anything important about God, but they will believe almost anything if it supports their religion of choice.
Therefore religion is fiction.

Tom

And as for your post, I see data as a subset of information which is a subset of records. Records can be vague and misleading. Data is the most rigorously determined information.

Tom

I am sure that it is not only religious people who at times inadvertently say things which are not true. I think it would be more beneficial for you to find out about God from God Himself, rather than determine that His existence is fiction based on human shortcomings. I'm sure God is not dependent upon me to verify His existence or the truth of the scriptures, if they are indeed His word.
 

Bunyip

pro scapegoat
I am sure that it is not only religious people who at times inadvertently say things which are not true. I think it would be more beneficial for you to find out about God from God Himself, rather than determine that His existence is fiction based on human shortcomings. I'm sure God is not dependent upon me to verify His existence or the truth of the scriptures, if they are indeed His word.

The problem is that the only evidence of god's existence is the testimony of humans. We can not find out from god, only from people like you.
 

Gnostic Seeker

Spiritual
The problem is that the only evidence of god's existence is the testimony of humans. We can not find out from god, only from people like you.

Yet that doesn't invalidate personal experience or insight, neither does it mean that God doesn't speak and act through us. How else would a pure spirit manifest?
 

DawudTalut

Peace be upon you.
I think this world is in chaos and every day this is verified with news accounts and events taking place all across the globe. I believe this is a strong indication pointing to the end of the age and the soon return of Jesus Christ. In this thread I am going to post some of these news stories and events as I have time, but I'll only be able to highlight very few at a time since so much is happening so fast it's really too hard to keep up with everything. Feel free to read and/or comment or discuss.

Earthquake frequency increasing: Rate of strong quakes doubles in 2014 -- Earth Changes -- Sott.net

Ebola death toll rises as its reach spreads past Africa - CNN.com

Mad Science: 'GM Micro Humans' 'Farmed' for Drug Testing : Natural Society

Peace be on you.
Respecting your waits:
Ahmadiyya Muslims believe that Sign are fulfilled and the second coming has taken place. It happened in Islam in 1889 in India, and process of revival of faith is started. Many people worldwide has joined after they sought direct guidance from God in this matter.
 

Bunyip

pro scapegoat
Yet that doesn't invalidate personal experience or insight, neither does it mean that God doesn't speak and act through us. How else would a pure spirit manifest?

Sure, but it doesn't mean that god DOES speak through people either - and we have no reason to believe he does. How else would a pure spirit manifest you ask? Well I doubt that it exists to manifest.
 

Bunyip

pro scapegoat
It was written and published on Dr. Mercola's website: Mercola.com Dr. Joseph Mercola . He simply included the Youtube about GMO's and the Grocery Manufactures Association in his article.

Yes I know who Mercola is, he is a well known conspiracy theorist and sadly rather too fond of propogating paranoid anti establishment propoganda. He is associated with the anti-vaccination movement, the anti GM movement, the anti-flouride movement and many other fringe groups.

Mercola is an anti GMO activist, infamous for falsely linking GMO's to autism.
 
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Bunyip

pro scapegoat
MercolaWatch:Supposed &#8220;report&#8221; comparing GMO and non-GMO corn

Posted on*May 3, 2013*by*Josh DeWald

While it may appear that I attack every article that Joe Mercola writes, his &#8220;newsletter&#8221; averages two articles every day except for Sunday (about the same volume as the Skeptoid group blog, except everything is published under his own name). So my once a week notes represent < 10% of what's available in a given week. Anyhow, Mercola.com articles will usually cite something that at least appears on quick glance to be actual research, but on deeper investigate will turn out not to be. But in a recent anti-GMO entry he did not even go that far, but actually simply used as a reference an entry on another blog site, which itself provided no reference. Even I was surprised about the low effort on this one.

The article in question is &#8220;Analysis Identifies Shocking Problems with Monsanto&#8217;s Genetically Engineered Corn&#8220;. His direct source is an entry entitled &#8220;Stunning Corn Comparison: GMO versus NON GMO&#8221; from a blog called &#8220;Moms Across America&#8221; (I&#8217;ll actually be focusing on his source in this article). I followed the link to the Moms Across America blog to find that the extent of the available &#8220;report&#8221; is really 2 IMAGES of a couple of tables of data. I wondered why there was no link to a PDF, Excel file, or really reference of any kind on specific methodology. Turns out if you go to the &#8220;ProfitPro&#8221; site (ProfitPro&#8217;s logo is contained in one of the images, and the blog author says to &#8220;call them&#8221; if anybody has questions) they have the following*disclaimer:

This information was intended for our customers only.
ProfitPro did not give permission for any other web site to use or publish the study. Additional side-by-side studies will be conducted this coming year.

ProfitPro point out that this report was from a single client of theirs&#8217; farm (who subsequently sold the non-GMO corn to the &#8220;major food company&#8221; that performed the analysis). Given that the study was apparently performed as part of a commercial transaction, has little to not methodological information other than the fields being &#8220;side by side&#8221;, it strikes me as irresponsible to use it as the source for an article that will potentially be read by thousands or hundreds of thousands of people. But I can guarantee you that people will cite the Mercola article as &#8220;proof&#8221; that GMO corn is inferior nutritionally (besides the other scare tactics in the article).

So despite the MAA authors&#8217; claims about free speech and &#8220;right to know&#8221;, they really had no permission to publish the information. The comments of the blog offer some entertainment as the authors attempt to defend the information. One commenter pointed out that the bulk of the information is what you would find in a soil study, not something you would do directly on produce (I&#8217;m certainly not qualified to evaluate that).

But back to the report, if the numbers were actually true, and could be shown to be representative, and could be demonstrated to be*meaningful*(many comments on the article point out that the analysis is norm for soil, not produce), then it would be rather damning. For example, calcium ppm is 14 for GMO vs 6130 for non-GMO. Nearly all of the results are an order of magnitude difference, which seems unheard of.

Slightly tangentially, but worth calling out, in the comments on the MomsAcrossAmerica blog, the author of the entry makes the claim that &#8220;animals will NOT eat GMO corn even in the dead of winter&#8221;. Again if true, this would be rather remarkable information. But it looks to be one of those random Internet rumors &#8220;proved&#8221; by YouTube videos and the like. I will admit I cannot find any specific study proving that animals will eat GMO, but my hunch is that it&#8217;s because&#8230; they do. Its simply never come up as something to study. Feeding GMO to animals is part of the safety testing for GMO produce in the first place.

While this happens to be an outrageously glaring example of the poor quality of research Mercola uses as the jumping point for his articles, at least in this case, its obviously from an unreliable source. In many cases, it takes a few jumps (and sometimes lots of reading) to discover that the research (when it&#8217;s even that) is from a less-than-reliable source.

Update (5/5/2013)

When I originally wrote this, my main goal was to point out at that this Moms Across America blog was a poor source, in general, for scientific references in the way that Mercola used them. I did not realize that the Moms Across America &#8220;report&#8221; article had already been making the rounds for a while until the Rbutr browser plugin lit up when I revisited the page. I wanted to link to some of the other sites that have dived deeper into the numbers of the &#8220;report&#8221;, which put it in an even worse light than I suspected initially. The main gist.. the report is most likely fraudulent. It seems that it was actually originally available on the ProfitProAG site, but they took it down and disavowed it after the backlash.

InChrist, the above is an investigative report into Mercola's propoganda articles.
 
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