Would you convert?

[Ezzedean]

Absolutely. What on earth would anyone stand to gain by refusing to believe something God personally revealed -- provided it was clear that it was truly God revealing it (which, in the situation I described in my OP, would certainly be the case). To simply say, "Well, regardless of what I ultimately found to be the truth, if it didn't happen to appeal to me, I'd reject it," is unbelievably short-sighted in my opinion. To say, "I like my concept of truth better than I like God's," strikes me as being totally lacking in common sense.

I couldn't agree with you more.

 

[Katzpur]

I guess I'm not entirely clear on the theology. Firstly, I thought everyone went to either Paradise or Prison after their deaths. So I don't understand your point of "you've already had your chance on earth and won't be getting another one" - that to me implies the person goes to Hell...unless what you meant is that the person stays in Prison for eternity.

This is getting kind of complicated, isn't it? Yes, everyone does go to either Paradise or Prison when they die, and no one ends up staying there indefinitely. We actually believe that only a very few people will ultimately be banned from Heaven once the final curtain falls. These people will have made a conscious choice that they want nothing to do with God, and will do so with a perfect knowledge of who He is and what they are giving up. The vast, vast majority will end up in Heaven, having eventually come to realize that they do want to spend eternity in Heaven after all. But what you may not understand is that we don't believe Heaven will be exactly the same for everyone who goes there. We believe in different "degrees of glory," within Heaven. Eternal progression (ultimately becoming godlike) is a goal of every devout Latter-day Saint, and the person who knowingly rejects the Gospel here on Earth will simply not be given the opportunity to attain the degree of perfection he might have done had he been less stubborn and rebellious when someone attempted to share the Gospel with him.

Secondly, how can you not realize you're in Prison? Wouldn't you have to realize it at some point, in order to move on? For example if there was someone who lived in another country and never heard anything about LDS during this lifetime, then died, they obviously didn't get a fair chance and as you said God would give them that chance. But the only way they'd be able to accept LDS theology is if they heard about it...so it must be made clear in Prison that that's where you are. Does that make sense?

Both Paradise and Prison are more states of mind than anything else. I would imagine that anyone in Prison would be keenly aware that he was pretty darned miserable. He would be tormented by guilt and regret and would realize that nothing short of a miracle would make it possible for this to every change. When presented with the Gospel (in the Spirit World), he would hopefully come to realize that this was the way to find happiness. Someone (Jesus Christ) had offered His own life in order to redeem all who would repent and accept Him. Upon coming to realize that, the only thing that would stand in the way of forgiveness would be his own pride. As someone (I think it was nutshell) already said, it's pretty unlikely that the Gospel will be taught as "LDS theology." It will simply be taught as the Gospel of Jesus Christ, the good news by which salvation and eternal life might be attained. Did that answer your question, or just further confuse you?

 

[sojourner]

I wouldn't convert because there really is nothing new to convert to. I am already a believer, and part of the one Body of Christ.

I rather suspect that "the truth" is much too broad for any one person or group to have an adequate handle on, anyway. Christianity isn't based upon knowledge or proof -- of truth, of God, or of anything else. Christianity is based upon faith.

 

[MaddLlama]

One thing I want to be clear about is that Spirit Prison is NOT for second chances. It's for those who didn't have their fair shot while on earth. We all only get ONE chance and God being the fair and just and merciful being that He is will make sure that everyone will receive an equal chance.

So, basically what you're saying is that this prison that everyone is talking about is only for people who have not been preached to by LDS, and everyone that has and already rejected the message isn't going to get the chance to convert in prison.

If that's true, then isn't this discussion completely moot?

 

[nutshell]

So, basically what you're saying is that this prison that everyone is talking about is only for people who have not been preached to by LDS, and everyone that has and already rejected the message isn't going to get the chance to convert in prison.

If that's true, then isn't this discussion completely moot?

No, that's not what I'm saying.

Spirit Prison is for everyone who did not have their fair chance to learn and accept the Gospel of Jesus Christ. I'm sure there are many that (as you put it) have been preached to, but that doesn't mean they've had their fair chance. Only God knows our situation and heart perfectly so only he can determine this. I expect there will be some LDS in Spirit Prison as well.

 

[gramps]

When you ask; "Would you convert" I don't quite understand that which are supposed to convert to. I am LDS and I don't know of any better religion or organization because of the fact that the opportunity to communicate with God is not a gift that only the leaders of any religion holds. As LDS anyone of us can actually communicate with God. What I mean by that is that we just don't speak to God in prayers and hope HE can hear us. We can have a conversation in which God also speaks to us. I have never been taught anything about religion from any person other than God. I can say because of this power or opportunity, I have been taught more, I believe, that mere man should know. I was taught where or when a being that had always existed became God. I know the entire history of this earth, (future history) down to the very last day of its existence. I am not bragging, I am also in awe over some of the teachings that are very difficult to believe, yet the Holy Spirit has witnessed to me everything that God taught me.
We are living in a void where there is no end. Man cannot fathom anything without an end. But if we say that there is an end to space, they in the same finite way of thinking we would have to admit that if there was an end, there would also have to be an end to the end.
There is so much that man does not know or understand. If we were to take a person who was born in the 16th century and bring that person to our day he would think that our world was of the devil.
If anyone would like, I could write down where God came from or the time when the spirit entity, known as "Intelligence" first became human kind or God.

gramps

 

[Katzpur]

No, that's not what I'm saying.

Spirit Prison is for everyone who did not have their fair chance to learn and accept the Gospel of Jesus Christ. I'm sure there are many that (as you put it) have been preached to, but that doesn't mean they've had their fair chance. Only God knows our situation and heart perfectly so only he can determine this. I expect there will be some LDS in Spirit Prison as well.

I'm not absolutely certain, but it is my understanding that the distinction between Paradise and the Spirit Prison will not be along denominational lines at all. Christ told the repentant thief who hung next to Him on the cross that He would see him that day in Paradise. Of course, Christ knew the man's heart, which makes all the difference in the world. But if a convicted thief could go straight to Paradise, I would imagine that a lot of other people could, too. Two that immediately come to my mind are Mother Teresa and Pope John Paul II. Somehow, it is impossible for me to imagine them anywhere other than Paradise.

 

[Katzpur]

When you ask; "Would you convert" I don't quite understand that which are supposed to convert to.

Well, I put the question that way primarily to draw attention to the thread, which it apparently did. I'm pretty sure there's not going to be a "Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" in the Spirit World, so from that standpoint, no, there wouldn't be anything to "convert to." I was primarily trying to find out what people's response would be to finding themselves (immediately after death) not in Heaven or Hell, but in an intermediate state where they could reconsider their options, so to speak. If by asking, "Would you convert?" it was my point to do anything other than start what I hoped would be an interesting conversation, it would have been to make other Christians, in particular, stop to consider the possibility that maybe there was more to the Christian Gospel than they'd realized.

 

[SoyLeche]

I'm not absolutely certain, but it is my understanding that the distinction between Paradise and the Spirit Prison will not be along denominational lines at all. Christ told the repentant thief who hung next to Him on the cross that He would see him that day in Paradise. Of course, Christ knew the man's heart, which makes all the difference in the world. But if a convicted thief could go straight to Paradise, I would imagine that a lot of other people could, too. Two that immediately come to my mind are Mother Teresa and Pope John Paul II. Somehow, it is impossible for me to imagine them anywhere other than Paradise.

I tend to agree with what you said earlier about Paradise and Prison being more a state of mind than anything. It seems to me that the words can pretty much be used interchangably when refering to the location of where people are between death and the ressurection.

 

[Mr. Hair]

Perhaps, it would certainly be a very interesting situation! I'm feeling a little dense tonight though, so my answer would probably depend on what it would mean to convert in this case. If it meant accepting and agreeing with the core doctrines, activities, experiences and perspectives of the LDS faith then my answer would probably lean towards being no; if however it meant something like holding a more positive view of the LDS church and it's claim to expressing a higher truth then it would probably be yes... Maybe.

When it comes to religions, a part of me is a bit of an 'all of the above' believer, so there wouldn't really be too much for me to convert into. It's not like I go around burning Mormons at the stake any more.

 

[Bishka]

I wouldn't, because there isn't going to be an "LDS Church" up in heaven -- thank goodness, I hate green jello with carrot slices in it.

I'm converted to the truth.

 

[SoyLeche]

I wouldn't, because there isn't going to be an "LDS Church" up in heaven -- thank goodness, I hate green jello with carrot slices in it.

I'm converted to the truth.

Who puts carrot slices in? It's shredded carrot - get it right

 

[Bishka]

Who puts carrot slices in? It's shredded carrot - get it right

You've found me out, I'm not a true mormon!

 

[nutshell]

I don't even like jello carrots in my jello!!!!!!!!!

I'm going straight to the Telestial Kingdom!

 

[uumckk16]

This is getting kind of complicated, isn't it? Yes, everyone does go to either Paradise or Prison when they die, and no one ends up staying there indefinitely. We actually believe that only a very few people will ultimately be banned from Heaven once the final curtain falls. These people will have made a conscious choice that they want nothing to do with God, and will do so with a perfect knowledge of who He is and what they are giving up. The vast, vast majority will end up in Heaven, having eventually come to realize that they do want to spend eternity in Heaven after all. But what you may not understand is that we don't believe Heaven will be exactly the same for everyone who goes there. We believe in different "degrees of glory," within Heaven. Eternal progression (ultimately becoming godlike) is a goal of every devout Latter-day Saint, and the person who knowingly rejects the Gospel here on Earth will simply not be given the opportunity to attain the degree of perfection he might have done had he been less stubborn and rebellious when someone attempted to share the Gospel with him.

Both Paradise and Prison are more states of mind than anything else. I would imagine that anyone in Prison would be keenly aware that he was pretty darned miserable. He would be tormented by guilt and regret and would realize that nothing short of a miracle would make it possible for this to every change. When presented with the Gospel (in the Spirit World), he would hopefully come to realize that this was the way to find happiness. Someone (Jesus Christ) had offered His own life in order to redeem all who would repent and accept Him. Upon coming to realize that, the only thing that would stand in the way of forgiveness would be his own pride. As someone (I think it was nutshell) already said, it's pretty unlikely that the Gospel will be taught as "LDS theology." It will simply be taught as the Gospel of Jesus Christ, the good news by which salvation and eternal life might be attained. Did that answer your question, or just further confuse you?

Thanks! No, you didn't confuse me. I think I understand it all now

 

[bobthom]

I though the "baptism for the dead" was supposed to render this question as unnecessary.

 

[roli]

No, that's not what I'm saying.

Spirit Prison is for everyone who did not have their fair chance to learn and accept the Gospel of Jesus Christ. I'm sure there are many that (as you put it) have been preached to, but that doesn't mean they've had their fair chance. Only God knows our situation and heart perfectly so only he can determine this. I expect there will be some LDS in Spirit Prison as well.

It's interesting that you have used such a safe politically correct term ,as spirit prison,
It almost sounds as if you will never be in physical torment,not so with the story of the rich man and Lazaras, the rich man seemed to be in some extreme discomfort unable to leave,but that is not the most read story in the bible either are any of the scriptures where Jesus preached hell ,judgement,punishment, eternal separation

I guess that is easier on the conscience then what Jesus actually describes the place where those who refuse to recieve Christwill eneter into ,that being hell,eternal torment, outer darkness,weeping and nashing of teeth,worm never dies, a place of perishing ,lake of fire,second death,
We will be surpirised I think to find out even at this point in our lives how many opportunities we have had to turn from sin and trust the savior Jesus and receieve pardon and redemption.God is relentless and persistent not willing that any perish but all come to repentance,but the will of man is proud arrogant and stubborn and loves the pleasures of sin for a season

 

[Bishka]

It's interesting that you have used such a safe politically correct term ,as spirit prison,
It almost sounds as if you will never be in physical torment,not so with the story of the rich man and Lazaras, the rich man seemed to be in some extreme discomfort unable to leave,but that is not the most read story in the bible either are any of the scriptures where Jesus preached hell ,judgement,punishment, eternal separation

I guess that is easier on the conscience then what Jesus actually describes the place where those who refuse to recieve Christwill eneter into ,that being hell,eternal torment, outer darkness,weeping and nashing of teeth,worm never dies, a place of perishing ,lake of fire,second death,
We will be surpirised I think to find out even at this point in our lives how many opportunities we have had to turn from sin and trust the savior Jesus and receieve pardon and redemption.God is relentless and persistent not willing that any perish but all come to repentance,but the will of man is proud arrogant and stubborn and loves the pleasures of sin for a season

You obviously haven't read the thread, have you?

 

[SoyLeche]

I though the "baptism for the dead" was supposed to render this question as unnecessary.

Only if you don't understand what "baptism for the dead" is.

 

[nutshell]

It's interesting that you have used such a safe politically correct term ,as spirit prison,
It almost sounds as if you will never be in physical torment,not so with the story of the rich man and Lazaras, the rich man seemed to be in some extreme discomfort unable to leave,but that is not the most read story in the bible either are any of the scriptures where Jesus preached hell ,judgement,punishment, eternal separation

I guess that is easier on the conscience then what Jesus actually describes the place where those who refuse to recieve Christwill eneter into ,that being hell,eternal torment, outer darkness,weeping and nashing of teeth,worm never dies, a place of perishing ,lake of fire,second death,
We will be surpirised I think to find out even at this point in our lives how many opportunities we have had to turn from sin and trust the savior Jesus and receieve pardon and redemption.God is relentless and persistent not willing that any perish but all come to repentance,but the will of man is proud arrogant and stubborn and loves the pleasures of sin for a season

This isn't a term made up by LDS, it's in the New Testament. I thought you would have known that.

Why don't you read the thread and figure out what we're actually talking about.