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Would You Leave Christians to Go to Hell?

The_Fisher_King

Trying to bring myself ever closer to Allah
Premium Member
We can establish a character of Yeshua by the synoptic gospels, and then compare that with the Tanakh prophecy; this then verifies things like Revelations....James debates Paul, and Judas has some clever lines in it.

Yet it is all accounts by man (sometimes divinely inspired); books are not the word of God. :innocent:

Why the synoptic gospels as your baseline?
And why can a book not be the Word of God?
 

wizanda

One Accepts All Religious Texts
Premium Member
Why the synoptic gospels as your baseline?
Because within Law, by more than one witness we establish a case....

So when we have 3 close testimonies, it makes sense to use that as at least a baseline; as it is the best information we have available, even if it does have odd errors.
And why can a book not be the Word of God?
Because the word of God doesn't stop, its something that flows from the core of Heaven, and without it reality wouldn't exist....

What is recorded in books, is the words of man, about them experiencing God or what God instructed them to record.

'The word of God' would be in a present tense, and it is always in a past tense with any religious text. :innocent:
 

Koldo

Outstanding Member
Say you're Christ, you come back and find the warnings you gave of the deception weren't clear enough; so when you come back, you find that Christianity is basically the same as the Pharisees were teaching, written by Pharisees, and they're not smart enough to recognize they're following the lie....

Now how far would you go trying to help a group of people who contradict what you said, claim to follow you, yet show themselves to be hypocrites, and basically are facing the other way....
  • What effort would you put in?
  • Is it worth it to get a load of people to understand, when they've chosen to go the other way?
  • Even though the text doesn't allocate for you to go and change them all, would you for the sake of the greater good, that it is an unfair deception, and they're just naive in many ways?
  • What method would you use to reach them all, when clearly you telling them all they're deceived, will cause animosity, and its doubtful many will even accept it?
  • :innocent:

Jesus didn't ever care about getting across a concise message to the upcoming generations. As far as we know he didn't even bother to write anything himself.
If I were Jesus, I would only have myself to blame for others not knowing the truth about my message.
 

RedDragon94

Love everyone, meditate often
Now how far would you go trying to help a group of people who contradict what you said, claim to follow you, yet show themselves to be hypocrites, and basically are facing the other way....
If this were to happen then wouldn't all the Christians just give up their false interpretations and listen to whatever Jesus said?
 

The_Fisher_King

Trying to bring myself ever closer to Allah
Premium Member
Because within Law, by more than one witness we establish a case....

So when we have 3 close testimonies, it makes sense to use that as at least a baseline; as it is the best information we have available, even if it does have odd errors.

Because the word of God doesn't stop, its something that flows from the core of Heaven, and without it reality wouldn't exist....

What is recorded in books, is the words of man, about them experiencing God or what God instructed them to record.

'The word of God' would be in a present tense, and it is always in a past tense with any religious text. :innocent:

It is also possible that the reason the 3 testimonies in question are close is because one of them came first and the other two are derived from it. Now, if the first one is not a reliable testimony...

Ah, okay, so that's your concept of the Word of God. Fair enough.
 

Jabar

“Strive always to excel in virtue and truth.”
Like Islam's beating of women and/or regulating them to second class humans?

Quran (4:34) - "Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great."

Contemporary translations sometimes water down the word 'beat', but it is the same one used in verse 8:12 and clearly means 'to strike'.

Quran (38:44) - "And take in your hand a green branch and beat her with it, and do not break your oath..." Allah telling Job to beat his wife (Tafsir).

**You can run but you cannot hide Jabar . . .

Haha good point brother but you are making misconceptions once again.

Suppose your daughter, if you had one, wants to jump from a ten story building. And she cries no matter what you tell her, she says i want to be superman, haha. You will obviously have to use some sort of force. You would have to hit her, it is not out of having hate, it is for her own benefit and that you care for her, brother. You are cruel to be kind. These are answers for the Hadith that refer to force on women. So, similarly Muhammad had to face occasions where they were disrespectful to the messenger of Allah. Not just a normal husband, but Prophet Muhammad. Not just one occasion but many occasions where she would disrespect him and things of such. She had caused pain to the Prophet, so his father in law had to slap her, they though Muhammad as the greatest person, they revered him more than there own lives.

Anyhow, now to the Qur'anic verses. Firstly, the Arabic word Darabah is beat lightly. After being disobedient and causing pain to you, you can beat lightly There is a Hadith that says you should not beat your wife on the face. Also, when you beat your wife there should be no mark left on the body. There is an example of beating with the miswaak, miswaak is a toothbrush. So, to say that you can just beat them in the way you are thinking is wrong. It is saying that you can beat them if they disobey but lightly. And in Hadith it states beat with miswaak when they disobey and cause pain to you. Wife Bashing is HARAM in Islam, if that is what you think that is what it is portraying.

The rule is first you tell her she is wrong and explain to her that you should be peaceful. If she continues to do things of such and causes you pain, then do not share beds with her, and the last warning if she still refuses and disrespect you may beat her LIGHTLY. This is not a punishment it is a warning, brother.

Islam portrays equality of both sexes. This is a symbolic warning.

[Quran 3:195] Their Lord responded to them: "I never fail to reward any worker among you for any work you do, be you MALE OR FEMALE, YOU ARE EQUAL TO ONE ANOTHER........."


:)
 

Kelly of the Phoenix

Well-Known Member
Now how far would you go trying to help a group of people who contradict what you said, claim to follow you, yet show themselves to be hypocrites, and basically are facing the other way....
What effort would you put in?

Is it worth it to get a load of people to understand, when they've chosen to go the other way?

Even though the text doesn't allocate for you to go and change them all, would you for the sake of the greater good, that it is an unfair deception, and they're just naive in many ways?

What method would you use to reach them all, when clearly you telling them all they're deceived, will cause animosity, and its doubtful many will even accept it?
:innocent:
A lot of effort.

No. Just roll up your sleeves and do it yourself with whatever people (humans, nonhumans, etc) are available. Much evil is here just because of the status quo, so the only way you might reach the hardcore evil people is to SHOW them the "kingdom", much like how the $15/hour debate is only useful if someone is actually doing it so that the results can be studied. Let those who thrive in more loving circumstances survive and let the evil status quo people die out.

Sometimes you just have to have the proverbial brick hit you in the head.

Wouldn't try to reach them all. I would focus on "grassroots" and change things from there. If you have a vat of blue liquid and need red to make it purple and can't afford red, just crowdfund red droplets and slowly but surely, you will get purple.

I would rather let them fend for themselves. If a blind cannot see a canyon on front of them, surely others will help but the fools who out of arrogance close their eyes shut and reject the help of anyone who's willing to assist them and instead lashes out at them... Out of their arrogance hurts others and strives always towards delusions and selfish ways, for him punishment is mercy, even if it destroys everything that he is.
Those who don't want the Truth, deny the basic facts and sticks to his own illusion out of fear... He should be left free to fall deep into karmic entanglement
I think God invented youtube and social media to help weed out the Darwin Award nominees. :)

Thank you for this suggestion, have pondered getting all the spiritual people here on earth together, and by overall consensus showing Christians they're going the wrong way...That could fit within a prophetic sense as well.
While context most likely refers to Jews not accepting Christianity, I think Christianity should do well to remember that God is more than willing to invite the "rabble" to the feast if everyone else treats Him like crap. I feel God is far more willing to have atheists, satanists, and others in heaven than self-righteous hypocrites.

"I can make butt kissers out of rocks" -- God, via John the Baptist :D

Without war but with proper funding, we probably could have made more scientific breakthroughs.
In the ancient world, most countries got large influxes of cash by warring. The military still seems to think that's profitable, when economic diplomacy is more profitable. Got to have living customers to buy stuff, after all.

If this were to happen then wouldn't all the Christians just give up their false interpretations and listen to whatever Jesus said?
It is said his sheep will know his voice, but I'm afraid they'll be the first to pop a cap in his head.

You would have to hit her
Alternatively, you could close access to the roof or window. That doesn't involve hitting anyone. There also ways to restrain that doesn't require hitting.

You are cruel to be kind.
Cruelty is the sign of the intellectually lazy.

She had caused pain to the Prophet, so his father in law had to slap her, they though Muhammad as the greatest person, they revered him more than there own lives.
So you are saying he was too cowardly to strike her himself?

I didn't realize the Prophet Muhammad was no better than *shudders* Kirk Cameron.

After being disobedient and causing pain to you, you can beat lightly
Or you can man up and realize she may have a valid point and you don't bruise a woman who only bruised your fragile ego.

Seriously, Islam has no monopoly on arrogance and chauvinism to be sure, but it could use some classes in manhood. The rational have no such need of barbarism.
 

Jabar

“Strive always to excel in virtue and truth.”
Alternatively, you could close access to the roof or window. That doesn't involve hitting anyone. There also ways to restrain that doesn't require hitting.

I am talking about if she is right about to jump out, and things of such. Just to make things more specific instead of vague in a way i will say, on a rooftop with no windows or anything.

Cruelty is the sign of the intellectually lazy.

Yes, it might be but depending on the situation not exactly. Cruelty can be used as a sign of affection in the context that i am portraying it in.

So you are saying he was too cowardly to strike her himself?

No, he felt he did not want to. He was peaceful and did not want to.

I didn't realize the Prophet Muhammad was no better than *shudders* Kirk Cameron.

Lol, think what you want.


Or you can man up and realize she may have a valid point and you don't bruise a woman who only bruised your fragile ego.

Muhammad neither his father in law bruised a woman, so i would respect if you would refrain from making false accusations.

Seriously, Islam has no monopoly on arrogance and chauvinism to be sure, but it could use some classes in manhood. The rational have no such need of barbarism.

Refer to those points again.

:)
 

EtuMalku

Abn Iblis ابن إبليس
Haha good point brother but you are making misconceptions once again.

Suppose your daughter, if you had one, wants to jump from a ten story building. And she cries no matter what you tell her, she says i want to be superman, haha. You will obviously have to use some sort of force. You would have to hit her, it is not out of having hate, it is for her own benefit and that you care for her, brother. You are cruel to be kind. These are answers for the Hadith that refer to force on women. So, similarly Muhammad had to face occasions where they were disrespectful to the messenger of Allah. Not just a normal husband, but Prophet Muhammad. Not just one occasion but many occasions where she would disrespect him and things of such. She had caused pain to the Prophet, so his father in law had to slap her, they though Muhammad as the greatest person, they revered him more than there own lives.

Anyhow, now to the Qur'anic verses. Firstly, the Arabic word Darabah is beat lightly. After being disobedient and causing pain to you, you can beat lightly There is a Hadith that says you should not beat your wife on the face. Also, when you beat your wife there should be no mark left on the body. There is an example of beating with the miswaak, miswaak is a toothbrush. So, to say that you can just beat them in the way you are thinking is wrong. It is saying that you can beat them if they disobey but lightly. And in Hadith it states beat with miswaak when they disobey and cause pain to you. Wife Bashing is HARAM in Islam, if that is what you think that is what it is portraying.

The rule is first you tell her she is wrong and explain to her that you should be peaceful. If she continues to do things of such and causes you pain, then do not share beds with her, and the last warning if she still refuses and disrespect you may beat her LIGHTLY. This is not a punishment it is a warning, brother.

Islam portrays equality of both sexes. This is a symbolic warning.

[Quran 3:195] Their Lord responded to them: "I never fail to reward any worker among you for any work you do, be you MALE OR FEMALE, YOU ARE EQUAL TO ONE ANOTHER........."


:)
What a load of you know what . . . LMFAO!!
You can't expect any of us for a moment to believe that lying reply, do you?
 

Jabar

“Strive always to excel in virtue and truth.”
What a load of you know what . . . LMFAO!!
You can't expect any of us for a moment to believe that lying reply, do you?

Tell me one lie i have told you in those paragraphs.

You just flat out deny my information, come on brother.

:)
 

EtuMalku

Abn Iblis ابن إبليس
Tell me one lie i have told you in those paragraphs.

You just flat out deny my information, come on brother.

:)
There are dozens of Muslim women who have come out against these beatings . . . these are not children who need discipline, these are adults who the man, even her husband, has no right to put his hands on, much less beat her . . . THAT is an ERROR I find in the Quran, and this only makes me believe there are many other ERRORS that Muslim Apologists try to cover up with double-talk and out right denial / lies (taqqiya and kitman)
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/quran/taqiyya.aspx
 

Jabar

“Strive always to excel in virtue and truth.”
There are dozens of Muslim women who have come out against these beatings . . . these are not children who need discipline, these are adults who the man, even her husband, has no right to put his hands on, much less beat her . . . THAT is an ERROR I find in the Quran, and this only makes me believe there are many other ERRORS that Muslim Apologists try to cover up with double-talk and out right denial / lies (taqqiya and kitman)
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/quran/taqiyya.aspx

There are dozens of Muslim women who say that there is absolute equality.

You find it as an error but i do not believe it to be so.

It is the actions of the man, not the Qur'an, Qur'an never approves of wife bashing and beatings.


:)
 

Jabar

“Strive always to excel in virtue and truth.”
No it doesn't, it's right in your book . . . stop lying to our faces, we aren't stupid

Brother, i revere you but when you make false accusations, it gets me a little irritated.

May you show me where? Not once does it promote women bashing.

:)
 

EtuMalku

Abn Iblis ابن إبليس
Brother, i revere you but when you make false accusations, it gets me a little irritated.

May you show me where? Not once does it promote women bashing.

:)
Not playing this moronic game with you any longer . . . I already posted it, pay attention
 

Jabar

“Strive always to excel in virtue and truth.”
Not playing this moronic game with you any longer . . . I already posted it, pay attention

Same with me.

Look brother, all i have to say is that i respect your opinion mostly.

The only thing i will tell you from here on out which you will reflect upon is that everyone will find the truth eventually on the Day Of Judgement in my belief, object or not.


“We will show them Our Signs in the universe, and in their own selves, until it becomes manifest to them that this (the Quran) is the truth” [Fussilat 41:53]

In the afterlife, the evil doers will not be able to escape the grip of justice and victims of worldly suffering will be recompensed for their pain. People who spent their lives responsibly, avoiding temptations to commit sins, will also be rewarded. As mentioned in the Quran, “God created the heavens and the earth for a true purpose: to reward each soul according to its deeds. They will not be wronged” (45:22).


:) Good luck to you brother.
 
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