Would you marry a gay couple...

[Revoltingest]

That's the point. No marriage in the US is valid without a state-issued license. A couple can have an ecumenical council of a Hindu pujari, the Dalai Lama, a RC or EO priest, a Presbyterian minister, a Vulcan High Priestess, et. al., all officiating at once but without that license, the marriage is invalid. That a clergy-person can sign and finalize the license is only a nod to tradition. This is something lost on too many people... marriage in the US is not a religious institution. My husband and I were married by a judge in her chambers, with no mention of anyone's God. She wouldn't even know who my Gods are. Personally, I am not one to clamor for religious recognition of my marriage because, while Hinduism is not opposed to homosexuality per se (nothing scriptural against it), Hinduism is pro-family and pro-procreation. Therefore I'd be hard-pressed to find a pujari to marry us in a Hindu ceremony.

Wait.......you're a guy.....& you have a husband.....but that would mean.......uh......oh.....OK.....I get it now.

 

[Neo Deist]

I believe that your logic is sadly flawed and distorted by the world's attitude, not God's. The laws of the land do not override the laws of God. When did he change his mind about homosexuality? Sexual sin is sexual sin...no matter what the gender is.

My logic is not flawed. Politically and socially I am a libertarian. I believe in our Constitution and have taken an oath twice to uphold and defend it (army & police). Religion can't dictate the law, period. Everyone in this country is entitled to the same rights as everyone else, and that includes marriage...or being a brain washed, misguided JW.

Second, I am a deist. Your holy books mean very little to me, other than as a course of study in my pursuit of world theology. You want to toss around some Bible verses; here are some for YOU:

Matthew 5:39
Matthew 7:1
Matthew 22:36-40

Lastly, if the Christian God winds up being "the god," and It punishes people for being gay, well...that is between God and them, not you. Until that time, mind your own business and keep your religious views out of our laws. The latter should not be a problem because the founding fathers of this country intentionally wrote the Constitution to prevent the Church from being a part of the central government.

BTW, Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Paine, Benjamin Franklin, James Madison and to a lesser degree George Washington, were....DEISTS.

 

[Neo Deist]

Honestly I do not understand this post. How does the separation of church and state cause a church minister to believe he should marry (presumably in a religious ceremony) a gay couple?

Maybe because that church minister is an open minded deist that believes in equal rights, and does not discriminate?!

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

Can I ask what is "Christian" about a gay marriage? Can they not get "married" in a non-religious ceremony? Civil ceremonies do not involve sanctioning something God would never recognize.

Early church did gay marriages

And what is Christian about marriage? Jesus had a very poor attitude towards it. He says marriage doesn't even exist in heaven. He encourages us to drop family like a hot potato and follow Jesus. He never got married (well, in canon, anyway).

Matt 19:4-6:
Jesus said....“Have you not read that the one who created them from the beginning made them male and female 5 and said: ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and his mother and will stick to his wife, and the two will be one flesh’? 6 So that they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore, what God has yoked together, let no man put apart."

So, let no person split up a perfectly good and loving family.

Marriage mates must be "male and female".

America's Best Christian explains traditional biblical marriage

When did he change his mind about homosexuality? Sexual sin is sexual sin...no matter what the gender is.

So all the rules condoning rape are okay? Oklahoma seems to think so.

Oklahoma: If she's out cold, it's not immoral.

Do you know why there are tragedies in the world? Why children die painful deaths? Why prayers go unanswered?

I notice it's almost always the Bible Belt that gets the most poverty and harm. I notice when New Orleans was hit by Katrina, the bars and clubs seemed okay, even the rainbow ones. Seems like it was all the Christian people who left grandma to die who got hit hardest....

It is a sacrifice on their part because they recognize that you cannot be a practicing homosexual and a Christian too. You can be one or the other, so you have to choose.

Jesus said you can't be a Christian and love your (hetero) family either, pumpkin. Now what?

Matthew 19:12 was an excellent scripture to demonstrate that some must remain "eunuchs" for the sake of the kingdom....do you now deny what it says?

It says we need to be nice to people who've had their junk snipped.

God does not exercise his justice with sentiment. His justice is perfect.

Perfect justice would entail not coming up with rules like no gays getting married without a dang good reason other than "some people go 'ew'".

Easy...if what is in the OT is restated in the NT, it is binding on Christians.

So you can't have a family and be Christian, then.

On the other hand Jesus condemned adultery, divorce and anything else that elevated one human being above another. He said "all you are brothers".

"Except if they're gay. Everyone's equal except gays" -- that Messiah who never married a woman and slept in the fields with at least 12 guys and is supposedly the descendant of a king who had a princely boyfriend

Where does it condemn homosexuality in the NT?

Paul does. Jesus doesn't. Christianity doesn't care what Jesus thinks.

 

[viole]

Can I ask what is "Christian" about a gay marriage? Can they not get "married" in a non-religious ceremony? Civil ceremonies do not involve sanctioning something God would never recognize.

Matt 19:4-6:
Jesus said....“Have you not read that the one who created them from the beginning made them male and female 5 and said: ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and his mother and will stick to his wife, and the two will be one flesh’? 6 So that they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore, what God has yoked together, let no man put apart."

God would never "yoke" together a same sex couple. Marriage mates must be "male and female".
I believe that your logic is sadly flawed and distorted by the world's attitude, not God's. The laws of the land do not override the laws of God. When did he change his mind about homosexuality? Sexual sin is sexual sin...no matter what the gender is.

God would never yoke a Christian and a non Christian, either. At least according to the same book you quote. Which raises the immediate question: why don't we see similar rallies trying to stop marriages between Christians and atheists, for instance?

By the way, the official church of Sweden marries gays without any problem.

I expect that in a few years, the ones who are objecting today will be remembered as the ones on the wrong side of history. Exactly like the ones who opposed marriages of interracial couples a few decades ago.

Ciao

- viole

 

[Jainarayan]

The laws of the land do not override the laws of God.

Uh yeah, they do. Our lawmakers and judicial system constantly make laws, revise laws, abolish laws. We see this every day in the US. I have yet to see "God's laws" change US law. It's great to believe what you believe, but don't superimpose your beliefs on those of us who so not share your beliefs.

 

[McBell]

A typical representation of one who thinks God is a human or must abide by ill informed human reasoning. It is obvious that you don't want discussion, you just want to condemn.
Not interested in your hostility.

Kettle, meet pot....

 

[McBell]

Nothing.

If we're going by the Bible's description, then Christian marriage is one man subjugating one or more women, who he bought from their fathers and are counted among his property.

Same-sex marriage, as a partnership of equals, defies this tradition... as do most modern western opposite-sex marriages.

You forgot the captured slaves....

 

[Acim]

I've never quite understood how the Gospels never touches on this topic (but ever so indirectly) and yet so called Christians have their minds made up. So, they go to other parts of the bible, words not made by Jesus to find answers. And seemingly ignore the passage of:

8 I say therefore to the unmarried and widows: It is good for them if they remain even as I.

9 But if they cannot contain themselves, let them marry; for it is better to marry than to burn.

1 Corinthians 7

So, you (as judge of humanity) wish to claim a certain lifestyle is a sin, but don't see marriage as the plausible answer to the sin? That it is better to burn with passion and to create a lifestyle around that burning passion.

IMO, we could rather easily live in a world where Christians are insisting on homosexual marriage as a way to overcome the perceived sin, and that some homosexuals would say, 'no marriage is not for me. But I'd still like to be a Christian.' Instead, we live in a world where if one is Christian and wants to be married (in the earthly sense) to another Christian that other Christians will take issue with this. Not based on Gospel (for sure) and not based on 1 Corinthians 7, but on things that seem to barely understand a desire for marriage, commitment and building a family.

 

[Draka]

Yes, I would officiate.

 

[Altfish]

Is it any wonder that even in the US the number of believers is falling???

 

[Brian Schuh]

I took an oath when I was 18 to uphold and defend the Constitution of the USA. This document is to be interpreted by the Supreme Court, which says gays and lesbians can marry.

However, I took a Noahide Declaration to keep the Seven Laws of Noah. We do not write up marital contracts or prenuptial agreements for same sex marriages. Also I would not actively participate in the ceremony. But how far would I go with this? Would I refuse to sell them wedding cake? Or refuse to witness or attend the ceremony?

The literal command is just I am not to write up any contracts or agreements for a gay or lesbian couple's marriage. I believe some people go hog wild with this. Refusing to sell cake for an event is ridiculous.

I am in contradiction between my religion and politics.

 

[Brian Schuh]

I'd never marry a gay couple.
I'm not a bigamist.

I would gladly marry a lesbian couple if the two of them also were bisexual. Being a bigamist would be fun.

 

[Thanda]

Maybe because that church minister is an open minded deist that believes in equal rights, and does not discriminate?!

No I'm not following. He states clearly that he believes in the separation of church and state. Logically he would not make that comment unless his church beliefs were that homosexuality is contrary to the word of God. So if he believes homosexuality is contrary to what God wants according to his religion, why would he do a religious ceremony for a homosexual couple? Why doesn't he simply support the right for gay marriage to be performed by state agencies like courts?

If on the other hand he actually believes God is happy with gay marriage then where does the separation of church and state come in?

 

[Neo Deist]

No I'm not following. He states clearly that he believes in the separation of church and state. Logically he would not make that comment unless his church beliefs were that homosexuality is contrary to the word of God. So if he believes homosexuality is contrary to what God wants according to his religion, why would he do a religious ceremony for a homosexual couple? Why doesn't he simply support the right for gay marriage to be performed by state agencies like courts?

If on the other hand he actually believes God is happy with gay marriage then where does the separation of church and state come in?

I am he, that you responded to.

I am a deist, not a hardcore, Bible thumping, conservative, Southern Baptist. My belief in God has nothing to do with man made holy texts, that were written thousands of years ago in a region that is known to be male chauvinistic, and full of supernatural nonsense. Welcome to the 21st century!

 

[Tarheeler]

The rabbi of my last congregation would marry a same sex couple, provided both were Jewish.
I'm not sure if the rabbi of my current congregation would or not; it's not something I've ever discussed with him.

If I were in that position, I would most likely provided both were Jewish.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

A typical representation of one who thinks God is a human or must abide by ill informed human reasoning. It is obvious that you don't want discussion, you just want to condemn.
Not interested in your hostility.

Human reasoning has given humanity philosophy, the scientific method, a greater (and continually expanding) understanding of ourselves and the wider Universe and has vastly improved our quality of & the average human lifespan. What has relying on God ever given us? More to the point, what has relying on someone else's interpretation of "God's laws" ever gotten us?

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

I am an ordained minister, I live in the USA, and I grew up as a very conservative Southern Baptist in Alabama. Knowing that...

I was recently asked if I would ever marry a gay couple. My answer was, YES. The person that asked me that was taken back by my lack of hesitation in my answer. They could not believe what they just heard.

After they recovered from the initial shock, they asked "why?" This was my answer:

In this country, there is a separation of Church and State. The government (State) can't dictate to the Church how it is to be run, what to believe, or who can serve in a clergy-capacity. By the same token, the Church can't dictate the law to the government, regardless of what the issues might be.

I went on to explain that not everyone in this country is a Christian, so why should everyone be subject to Christian "law?" The US Constitution grants rights to all of its citizens, regardless of race, gender, religious beliefs or sexual orientation. Gays have the exact same rights as everyone else, and that includes being married.

That person was speechless. I added that I personally do not agree with a gay lifestyle, but it is not my place to discriminate or judge. To each their own in life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

At that point they tried to make some type of come back and the best they could was to mutter something about children seeing two guys kissing in public. While I understand the confusion that might cause in a child, I actually can't recall a time that I have seen that happen. If it does, I will deal with it in my own way with regard to my children.

The last thing they mentioned was how gay men would be sexually abusive to children. I stopped them right there and explained that there is a HUGE difference between being gay and being a pedophile. People can be gay and have no attraction to children what-so-ever.

They walked off.

Well done, sir. I'm annoyed I can't give you anything more substantial than one like.

In answer to the original question: If I could officiate a gay wedding, I would.

 

[Scott C.]

I am an ordained minister, I live in the USA, and I grew up as a very conservative Southern Baptist in Alabama. Knowing that...

I was recently asked if I would ever marry a gay couple. My answer was, YES. The person that asked me that was taken back by my lack of hesitation in my answer. They could not believe what they just heard.

After they recovered from the initial shock, they asked "why?" This was my answer:

In this country, there is a separation of Church and State. The government (State) can't dictate to the Church how it is to be run, what to believe, or who can serve in a clergy-capacity. By the same token, the Church can't dictate the law to the government, regardless of what the issues might be.

I went on to explain that not everyone in this country is a Christian, so why should everyone be subject to Christian "law?" The US Constitution grants rights to all of its citizens, regardless of race, gender, religious beliefs or sexual orientation. Gays have the exact same rights as everyone else, and that includes being married.

That person was speechless. I added that I personally do not agree with a gay lifestyle, but it is not my place to discriminate or judge. To each their own in life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

At that point they tried to make some type of come back and the best they could was to mutter something about children seeing two guys kissing in public. While I understand the confusion that might cause in a child, I actually can't recall a time that I have seen that happen. If it does, I will deal with it in my own way with regard to my children.

The last thing they mentioned was how gay men would be sexually abusive to children. I stopped them right there and explained that there is a HUGE difference between being gay and being a pedophile. People can be gay and have no attraction to children what-so-ever.

They walked off.

If I had the authority to perform a marriage, yes I would marry a gay couple. I would be performing a purely civil function with no tie to my church. Now if a minister performs a gay wedding that implies that his faith recognizes such a wedding as having the blessings of God. I would think a minister would only perform such a marriage if that is indeed what he believes.

 

[vaguelyhumanoid]

Easy...if what is in the OT is restated in the NT, it is binding on Christians. If its part of Israel's ceremonial or dietary laws, these pertained only to Jews. There was no law restated to Christians that they should be circumcised, observe a Sabbath or sacrifice animals. On the other hand Jesus condemned adultery, divorce and anything else that elevated one human being above another. He said "all you are brothers". All positions in the congregations were positions of service, not power.

So the aspects of Biblical law that inconvenience you personally are no longer valid, but the ones that reinforce your prejudices must be enforced at all costs?