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Would you rather live in a world without science...or in a world without religion?

Crazyflight

Antitheist-Open to Ideas!
This is one of these idiotic "would you rather" questions that really accomplishes nothing, even though the answer is extremely obvious. A world without religion would be much better than a world without science. In the end, it depends on how you define science. Science is everything related to observations and experimentation on the physical and natural world. Where would we be without science? It's possible to say that without science, we'd still be pounding rocks together and hunting/gathering. Science involved observing surroundings to eventually begin farming and harvesting. That led to civilization, which in turn led to private property and more entropy.

With religion comes differences, and in turn, hatred and fear. This is what has led to abominations such as the Crusades, Inquisition, etc. Religion is one of the main causes of fear within humans, which is why I am strongly against it.

In the end, we'd all have been better off without both religion and science, although I'd much rather have science. Without the two of these things, we would be like all of the other organisms on this earth. Humans are the embodiment of chaos, which will lead to our imminent demise. If we never had science, we wouldn't have civilization, which marked the beginning of entropy on earth. If we didn't have religion, there would be one less difference within people, which is one of the main causes of entropy.

As of now, it is unavoidable. We have both religion and science, so why ask the question? We are all going to die, and eventually the Sun will become a black hole and envelop the Earth. All of the stars will become black holes sooner or later, and we will be stuck with that dense cluster of mass that led to the first Big Bang. But how do we know it was the first Big Bang? It could have been the second or third, or trillionth. It's the cycle of entropy that we humans embody because of things like religion and difference and hatred and civilization.
 

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
As of now, it is unavoidable. We have both religion and science, so why ask the question? We are all going to die, and eventually the Sun will become a black hole and envelop the Earth. All of the stars will become black holes sooner or later, and we will be stuck with that dense cluster of mass that led to the first Big Bang. But how do we know it was the first Big Bang? It could have been the second or third, or trillionth. It's the cycle of entropy that we humans embody because of things like religion and difference and hatred and civilization.
At first glance your post seemed almost sensible, nay, almost reasonable. Then, I stopped and began to read more closely. This last paragraph is almost utter nonsense. You do understand that, right? FTR, our sun CANNOT become a black hole. I know, I know. Science is hard. :facepalm:

Oh, and welcome to RF, given that this was your first post.
 

Penumbra

Veteran Member
Premium Member
The sun isn't big enough to become a black hole, nor are most stars. For stars this size, the understanding is that they turn into red giants, then white dwarfs, and then just kind of fade darker.
 

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
The sun isn't big enough to become a black hole, nor are most stars. For stars this size, the understanding is that they turn into red giants, then white dwarfs, and then just kind of fade darker.
Actually dear Penumbra, size, in this case, doesn't matter. It's all about mass. Not quite the same thing. :)
 

Penumbra

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Actually dear Penumbra, size, in this case, doesn't matter. It's all about mass. Not quite the same thing. :)
Yes, it's the mass. Several solar masses are need for a black hole.

Realistically though, the types of stars that are small and dense are generally the ones that already left their main sequence. The stars that turn into black holes are very large and very massive during their main sequence. I'm sure there's an exception to everything in space, though.
 

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
Yes, it's the mass. Several solar masses are need for a black hole.

Realistically though, the types of stars that are small and dense are generally the ones that already left their main sequence. The stars that turn into black holes are very large and very massive during their main sequence. I'm sure there's an exception to everything in space, though.
Close enough for me. :) Whereas with religion, we'd have no idea about any of this. :D
 

FranklinMichaelV.3

Well-Known Member
Modern Science as we know it...is fairly young. Give it another 1800 or so years...then ask that same question again.

I guess if you look at what it has accomplished in such a short period of time it's amazing. But in some ways it was religion that created the corner stone for it to happen. As much as religion was used to suppress free thought, it also was used to maintain order, balance, and give science the foundation to become what it is now.
 

Enai de a lukal

Well-Known Member
What world would you rather live in? Do we need a balance, or is one more important than the other?

Hmm, let me think... Would I rather live in a world without air conditioning, life-saving medical procedures, clean water, internet access, and all the other things science provides?

Or in a world without holy wars and crusades, stonings and witch burnings, mass delusion and infantalizing superstition?

That's a tough one, really.

:sarcastic
 

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
It occurs to me that this thread is an excellent demonstration of how utterly spoiled first world humans truly are. We're apparently completely unwilling to fathom giving up the luxuries science applications have provided for us. This scares me. We're pathologically addicted to the status quo.
 

Brickjectivity

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Quintessence said:
It occurs to me that this thread is an excellent demonstration of how utterly spoiled first world humans truly are. We're apparently completely unwilling to fathom giving up the luxuries science applications have provided for us. This scares me. We're pathologically addicted to the status quo.
I think that those who practice scientific research are not spoiled. Its those who benefit from it without practicing it who become spoiled.
 

FranklinMichaelV.3

Well-Known Member
It occurs to me that this thread is an excellent demonstration of how utterly spoiled first world humans truly are. We're apparently completely unwilling to fathom giving up the luxuries science applications have provided for us. This scares me. We're pathologically addicted to the status quo.

Coming from a third world country...I don't blame them. It Kinda sucks...like really badly. The small amount of "science" they have over there is part of why I am alive today.

The amount of childhood diseases I had, due to lack of proper sanitary conditions, immunizations, etc...if it hadn't been for medicine and the likes I would probably not have made it.

My parents however look at it from a religious point of view, though they took me to the doctor, to them it's the prayers that helped, or God working through the doctors. I take a little bit from column A and column B. But I understand very well why the attribute it to God though. In my country children who get sick (Haiti btw back in the late 80's), well they don't make it even with treatment. They can only see it from that point of view...not seeing that in first world countries...the diseases I had were not only "easily" curable, but preventable.
 

Penumbra

Veteran Member
Premium Member
It occurs to me that this thread is an excellent demonstration of how utterly spoiled first world humans truly are. We're apparently completely unwilling to fathom giving up the luxuries science applications have provided for us. This scares me. We're pathologically addicted to the status quo.
Well I was being literal.

I'd be dead in a world without science.

(It makes the choice really easy.)
 

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
It occurs to me that this thread is an excellent demonstration of how utterly spoiled first world humans truly are. We're apparently completely unwilling to fathom giving up the luxuries science applications have provided for us. This scares me. We're pathologically addicted to the status quo.
Be that as it may it is certainly a far sight better than being pathologically addicted to what is often delusional religious thinking.
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
It occurs to me that this thread is an excellent demonstration of how utterly spoiled first world humans truly are. We're apparently completely unwilling to fathom giving up the luxuries science applications have provided for us. This scares me. We're pathologically addicted to the status quo.

So you think first world humans think science is more important than religion because they are unwilling to give up technology? Is that the extent of your understanding?
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I think a world without religion is not the same as a world without belief. That is why I would not hesitate to choose science over religion. I cannot choose science over faith. And I cannot choose faith over science. I believe the world needs them both.

The Creator commanded the humans to do this; Yahweh God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to work it and to preserve it. Genesis 2:15 That cannot be accomplished without "science" imo.
 

idea

Question Everything
I think it would be impossible to have a world with only one... A world without spirituality - without spirits - would be a world without life... a world without life would also be a world without science, without intelligence being able to study itself and it's surroundings.
 

FearGod

Freedom Of Mind
What world would you rather live in? Do we need a balance, or is one more important than the other?

We are living nowadays in a world without religion.

The best is a world with science and religion.

Religion is all about high morals,honesty,true love,unity...etc
 

FranklinMichaelV.3

Well-Known Member
I think it would be impossible to have a world with only one... A world without spirituality - without spirits - would be a world without life... a world without life would also be a world without science, without intelligence being able to study itself and it's surroundings.

Spirituality and religion don't necessarily go hand in hand.
 
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