Confucian Mormon Buddhist
Member
Hmm, lunatics/perverts (many of them known for sexual deviancy) being allowed to use restrooms of the opposite sex, I wonder how that could possibly go wrong.
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Would you sue a transgender person for using the bathroom?
- Thread starter fantome profane
- Start date
Hmm, lunatics/perverts (many of them known for sexual deviancy) being allowed to use restrooms of the opposite sex, I wonder how that could possibly go wrong.
I still don't see what this has to do with trans people.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
Agnostic deists eat a diet rich in human babies.
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When I went to San Francisco they had genderless bathrooms. I didn't want to sue anyone.
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
This does not make sense. Excuse me if I'm off those who identify as transgender, but....
Transgender is someone who experience gender dysphoria where he or she feels biologically (and by gene since birth) was born in the wrong body. It is not something you a see on the outside nor is it a behavior. My cousin is transgender and she is a beautiful woman that you would never expect her to be biologically male.
Lunatics and perverts, the words, have to do with behavior not who a person is and how they see and identify themselves as male or female. I can be a lunatic sometimes just as my cousin can be. We are both women; and, our gender has nothing to do with our behavior.
The only thing that is "uncomfortable" to society about transgender using the bathroom of their gender is not because of who they are as transgender people (since it is not an action like being a pervert or acting like a lunatic. People do that on RF and they aren't transgender). A lot of times it's about stereotypes. For example, many feminine men are already portrayed as gay; when, I did embarrassingly asked one guy years ago who was flambountant if he was, and he said he was not.
So society would think something is off when they see someone who looks stereotypically transgender when in some cases people are not. That is just how they look.
None of this has to do with behavior. Yes, it is uncomfortable for many people to see someone who "looks" transgender to use the restroom of their assigned gender; but, no police is going to look up anyone's skirts. It would be a huge lawsuit if a female that looked straight up like a guy, not transgender, and not stereotypical gay but a straight woman went into the women's restroom and got arrested only to find out she was female.
What would one do in that situation?
Gender dysphoria isn't an action. I don't see anything wrong with going into the restroom of your assigned gender in and of itself. I do see societal issues and many people here deal with it by created gender neutral bathrooms. I feel that is like "sitting in the back of the bus" but saying you still get to ride, but that's just me. Though I understand both views.
Just the bigotry and nastiness can be eliminated and just talk about it even if one disagrees. That is okay. Just be civil about it.
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No, it isn't. There's many different intersex variations. Transsexualism may be an intersex condition as it seems to be a biological mishap.
Sha'irullah
رسول الآلهة
So essentially you are an expert in pseudoscience?
I accept you as a male even if you are biologically a female. I am not going to redefine words for your benefits or for others. You are a male in spirit and that is all I need to understand you. You are a human being with passions and desires along with the experience of tragedies and injustices.
Just because you do not fall into the realm of biological or psychological normalcy doesn't mean I have to tell you otherwise. You are not normal and I genuinely don't care and accept you as is without any questions. I give you my genuine love and appreciation and you somehow think it should be sugar coated and sweetened to your liking.
What pseudiscience? What do you mean by "normalcy"? Because I'm sure you don't fit that definition, either.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
What you're calling "pseudoscience" is actually biology.
Sha'irullah
رسول الآلهة
Oh great another one. Please show me a biological example of a variation in intersexual forms. I will give you a century to report back to me on this finding. And by intersex I mean the hippie dippie kind not chromosomal or biological hermaphroditism
Sha'irullah
رسول الآلهة
Transgenderism is a mental mishap and an unfortunate one considering the sheer amount of stress and anxiety it places on those afflicted. But it is also not a biological possibility to switch genders in any legitimate sense. Can a person desire to be the opposite sex? Sure! I always wondered about it as a child since it was perplexing to me.
But I know for a fact I will never acquire a uterus, vagina and a fully intact hormonal cycle that permits menstruation. Why would I play dress up to pretend otherwise? I have deluded myself into many things as a youth but I could never deluded myself into such ludicrousy.
Also by normalcy I am referring to sexual normalcy. I am not a sexually normal person either and I have no issues acknowledging that. I cannot get aroused by sex and I am such a fervent sadist that I can only have sex weekly to give my girlfriend enough time to heal from the beatings I give her. I am essentially asexual without such things. Even though that is the case I can still live with myself and look at others and love them with genuine affection while having NO NEED WHATSOEVER to make reality conform to my desires.
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I would say that transsexualism is more of a disorder of sex differentiation that occurs in the womb. Something causes the brain to be blasted with the hormones of the sex opposite the karotype of the fetus, thereby masculinizing or feminizing it, contrary to the rest of the body. This causes the sex dysphoria since the brain expects the body to be a certain way but it isn't. I have a male digit ratio, for example, which is evidence that I was exposed to high amounts of androgens in the womb. I can't speak for people like cross dressers or non-binary sorts because I was never one of them. I always experienced myself as male and male only. I don't quite understand them, myself.
As for your sexual sadism... I suppose we all have our kinks.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
Being intersexed, having Kleinfelters, or a number of other such things or chromosomal/biologically based.
And, yes, "another one." I've extensively studied the subject, my degree is in psychology, and I've noticed there are way too many shades of gray to think there is anything black/white about sex and gender. It's actually a very fascinating subject to study once you realize that sexuality and gender aren't a binary but rather a multifaceted gem that is a part of what makes humans fascinating.
It's been society that has afflicted me with great stress and anxiety. With pretty much anyone who is trans, it is society, not gender dysphoria, that makes it so hard. The stress and anxiety also comes from trying to pretend you're someone else. For me, trying to be male is far, far worse than it would be for me to not be able to do art anymore, and I get anxious and can't sleep if I break a guitar string at night when no music stores are open to get some new ones, or irritable if I don't have a good eraser and pencil sharpener. But those have never left me crying myself to sleep or wishing I could have just died when I was born instead of being saved (I was born severely oxygen deprived, not making a sound, and immediately rushed into an oxygen tent thingy).
I also don't consider it unfortunate. There is a degree of understanding of both sexes that very few people ever get, I've examined my life and pondered who I am more-so than most, and instead of being someone who has to harp and chime about how individual and unique they are, I don't have to say a thing because I know I have left the herd in a way that make Nietzsche and Kipling look pathetically laughable.
Nope. The brain can't be changed. I tried to switch from what I should be, and it left me in a pretty bad place and mental state. I tried switching to male, and it left me caring for life so little I was doing crime and theft, drinking heavily, very depressed, and suicidal. Now that I'm on the path to being me, I feel so much better that I can confidently say that was a past life when I was a different person. Now I have goals, direction, plans, and didn't know it was possible to feel this good about being alive. I also don't get drunk anymore.
Just for others I haven't explained this to, in order to build off of your post: I have female finger digit ratio, and my hands and feet are also about the same size, even smaller in some cases, as other women. I can even go to a store and find women's jeans in my size, plenty of them, and have a variety to choose from. With men's jeans, I had to pretty much order online because it was hard to find the right size.
And to refute the "perv" Idea, where I'm at now I don't think I can get enough of an erection anymore for penetration, but it's not like that really gave me that much pleasure anyways. And my libido is also way down from what it was before, and I feel much more in control of it, which is pretty great. And the more I go along with my transition the more I'm realizing I'm not really into women, and tried and tried to make myself that way - which is likely why one night as I was having sex with my ex she got very upset worried it was something about her because typically I didn't orgasm. There've be plenty of times when I've been the one faking it just because I was bored and done and getting no where.
So, significantly lowered sex drive, no real chance of an erection, no interest in women, and people are supposed to be worried if I go into a room to go take care of my own business where sneaking a peak is pretty hard to do anyways without looking very awkward and drawing due attention to yourself.
I might sue Caitlyn Jenner . . . if I were in the women's restroom and she was in there . . . wait a minute, maybe she would sue me if I was in the women's restroom. In any case, I would sue her because I think she has a lot of money, and I think she voted for Trump, and that's the big problem at the moment.
Sha'irullah
رسول الآلهة
I am referring to nonsense like gender fluidity not legitimate medical reasons for gender dysphoria.
To say it is society that creates your unease is one thing but the fact that one is born without the mental awareness of his or her biological gender is another. The fact you are born with such a dissociation is more than enough to create turmoil in your soul the same way people like me are sexually distant from intimacy. So how can you say that that it is society's fault for giving you unease? You are shifting completely unsubstantiated blame on people that give little to no cares about you. Do you think I wake up blaming society for not conforming to my idea of sexual intercourse? Nobody even has to know yet alone ask me about it.
So how can society cause you unease for a biological mishap that is of no fault of your own or others?
Which is exactly my point; why would you or anyone support support a delusion as reality when according to all evidence it is not real yet alone possible.
Sha'irullah
رسول الآلهة
But this is exactly what I am referring to earlier. I understand the effect of gender dysphoria completely but my only concern is having society bend to the will of others because of their desires being unable to reach fruition. This is why you have racist programs like Affirmative Action when the struggle of winning the respect of others would have resulted in better outcomes. Forcing somebody to accept you will only make them vilify you and nothing is worst than an animal trapped in a corner. Transgenderism should have been given as little thought now as it did before when it was not pushed into the realm of politics.
But when your "kinks" are mentally and socially draining to the point it inhibits your outlook on life it doesn't become pleasurable. I actually wake up in contempt of myself at times for being in a relationship with a sweet girl who has the innocence and obliviousness of a 10 year old. Knowing that I will never have a sense of normalcy and humanity in a relationship is frightening to me. I do not like the concept of spending my entire life self regulating my habits.
I am also not a sexual sadist, just a run of the mill sadist with a good smile and moderate good looks.
I don't like the politization of trans stuff, either. It's annoying, from both sides. All I'd like is space for us to be who we are. If someone has a problem with it, that's their problem and they're free to leave us alone. I do think the special snowflake crap with people making up genders is rather annoying, as well. I'm just an old-fashioned trannsexual.
I'm sorry you have to go through that. I have certain aspects of my personality I struggle with, too.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
I don't see that as nonsense either. Now, granted, I'm not as knowledgeable on that subject, but I really see no reason for there to be some underlying biologically-based reason for gender fluidity.
Because when people say things like pervert, they are usually referring to transsexuals, who they know through Jerry Springer and/or porn. Because being a woman is seen as being weaker. Because we are attacked, beaten, and sometimes killed. Fired from jobs and denied health care. Disowned by friends and family, with many children being kicked out of their home. There are many, many things that society does that gives us grief. The very fact this thread exist is proof enough.
The only thing we are trying to force is legal protections under the laws that already exist. We'd like to be acknowledged as we are, but there aren't many of us (to my knowledge) that advocate actually trying to somehow force that.
Milton Platt
Well-Known Member
All the bills are inane. Is everyone going to have to show their birth certificate and drop their underwear at the bathroom door?
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
What I'm curious about, is last I knew Missouri (where I was born) issues amended birth certificates, where I would have both an F and an M on my BC. So would this legally entitle to me use either one? Or what if someone is from Indiana and neither is listed? Are they just SOL and damned to go do their business in the bushes?