Yadavas Hebrews farmers. How come Jews thought Hebrews were slaves?

[Bthoth]

The topic is: what determines the label "Jewish"?

It's sure not you or your method of discourse.

The topic is: what determines the label "Jewish"?

It's sure not you or your method of discourse.

End the nonsense.............. You are not the last word of what is real!

Nor are your teachers that have trained you to remain so obtuse..

 

[dybmh]

It's sure not you or your method of discourse.

The topic is: what determines the label "Jewish".

It's sure not you or your method of discourse.

The topic is: what determines the label "Jewish".

End the nonsense.............. You are not the last word of what is real!

Likewise. But what you offered made no logical sense, and no one is going to agree with it. So, you're shaking your fist at clouds. And wishing that things followed your own "purity test".

Nor are your teachers that have trained you to remain so obtuse..

It makes perfect sense. There is a lineage, cultural heritage, but it does allow others to join it if they agree to the follow the rules. If they do not agree then they are not included. It really is that simple. If a person is born into it, then they are automatically part of the lineage.

 

[Bthoth]

So let us get back to abraham, if u may.

Abraham..... as the term is written, is a character in a few stories. There are 3 succinct belief systems surrounding the foundations of those stories.

 

[dybmh]

Abraham..... as the term is written, is a character in a few stories. There are 3 succinct belief systems surrounding the foundations of those stories.

This is the part that matters:

​

14:19 - Melchitzedek​

ויברכהו ויאמר ברוך אברם לאל עליון קנה שמים וארץ׃​

​

14:20 - Melchitzedek​

וברוך אל עליון אשר־מגן צריך בידך ויתן־לו מעשר מכל׃​

​

14:22 - Abram​

ויאמר אברם אל־מלך סדם הרמתי ידי אל־יהוה אל עליון קנה שמים וארץ׃​

See the difference? Abram knew early on יהוה is the one and only the MOST HIGH. So he corrected Melchitzedek.

See those two Hei's? Abram became AbraHam. Sarai became SaraH. Because they were devoted to יהוה.

 

[Bthoth]

The topic is: what determines the label "Jewish".

Are you suggesting that is means 'slaves'?

The topic is: what determines the label "Jewish".

Are you suggesting that is means 'slaves' or that you expect that I am to be your slave and capitulate?

But what you offered made no logical sense, and no one is going to agree with it.

Okey Dokey... Each are equal even if you dont like it.

So, you're shaking your fist at clouds.

That's your picture drawing. Or trying to condemn me, like the dross do.

And wishing that things followed your own "purity test".

Purity test? Is that "it does allow others to join it if they agree to the follow the rules. " ""If they do not agree then they are not included. It really is that simple""""

It makes perfect sense. There is a lineage, cultural heritage, but it does allow others to join it if they agree to the follow the rules. If they do not agree then they are not included. It really is that simple.

Is that the "What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.”

Equality!

If a person is born into it, then they are automatically part of the lineage.

Oooops! You crossed yourself up again.

Follow the rules and your in, dont follow them and your out......cross up with..................... part of the lineage?

And you wonder which who is rational and which is not?!?!?!?

 

[Bthoth]

This is the part that matters:

​

14:19 - Melchitzedek​

ויברכהו ויאמר ברוך אברם לאל עליון קנה שמים וארץ׃​

​

14:20 - Melchitzedek​

וברוך אל עליון אשר־מגן צריך בידך ויתן־לו מעשר מכל׃​

​

14:22 - Abram​

ויאמר אברם אל־מלך סדם הרמתי ידי אל־יהוה אל עליון קנה שמים וארץ׃​

See the difference? Abram knew early on יהוה is the one and only the MOST HIGH. So he corrected Melchitzedek.

See those two Hei's? Abram became AbraHam. Sarai became SaraH. Because they were devoted to יהוה.

i dont read the tic tak toe.

I told you that before, and yet you still rant with it.

Quit the nonsense. I agreed, I do make mistakes......

 

[dybmh]

Are you suggesting that is means 'slaves'?

Are you suggesting that is means 'slaves' or that you expect that I am to be your slave and capitulate?

~eye-rolls~

Okey Dokey... Each are equal even if you dont like it.

I have no idea what you're saying right now. You were saying before that all religious identifiers should be erased. No one is going to agree to that especially with Judaism.

That's your picture drawing. Or trying to condemn me, like the dross do.

I'm just sharing how it looks outside of your brain. You wishing for a world without religious identifiers is far-fetched and outlandish.

Purity test? Is that "it does allow others to join it if they agree to the follow the rules. " ""If they do not agree then they are not included. It really is that simple""""

No it's just common sense. They cannot join if they are subversive and oppositional. it has nothing to do with purity and dross.

Is that the "What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.”

Equality!

No-no. You got it wrong again. We are less than the others not equal. Less. Always less. ציון

Oooops! You crossed yourself up again.

Follow the rules and your in, dont follow them and your out......cross up with..................... part of the lineage?

And you wonder which who is rational and which is not?!?!?!?

No. And I understand it's difficult for those who do not share our God-concept and beliefs.

God is making the choice. If you keep that in mind when considering Judaism, everything is a lot easier. If you cannot imagine God making the choice, it's OK. Leave that to us.

 

[dybmh]

i dont read the tic tak toe.

OH! It's easy to see. They're just shapes. Melchitzedek is blessing Abram, but Abram knows that YHVH is the proper designation for THE MOST HIGH god. And after that what happes next in the story:

אחר הדברים האלה היה דבר־יהוה אל־אברם במחזה לאמר אל־תירא אברם אנכי מגן לך שכרך הרבה מאד׃

The YHVH decreed to Abram "Ahnochi Magen". That means I, YHVH, am the one and only sheild for you. Ahnochi. Which contrasts with simply Ahni. I am the one and only.

You said there are 3 seperate stories that are the basis for Abraham. I don't know what Torah you're reading. This is one continuous coherent story about Abram realizing יהוה, and the profound meaning of that. I'm not sure how anyone can split up the story of Abraham without doing a tremendous amount of work, or they simply... ( oh. ) don't know the language

I told you that before, and yet you still rant with it.

It seems really really easy to me especially when I color code it. So you don't know what YHVH looks like in Hebrew? It's יהוה.

Quit the nonsense. I agreed, I do make mistakes......

OK. Great. So, the splitting of Abrahams story was a mistake. Good news, glad we agree.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Jewish is a religious identifier except to the ignorant. It's not a region of the world, it's not a race and it sure aint a label to condemn people.

No, Jew is not a religious identifier (Jew being the noun, Jewish being the adjective). Jewish law determines who is a Jew. You really have nothing to say about it.

Funny attempt. Lakota are indigenous (indian) of the north american continent. They are not a race or religion even if they could have cultrural differences of the hopi or sioux. I like diversity personally but Mankind are still mankind equally.

Exactly. The Lakota are neither a race nor a religion, just like Jews. The Lakota are a TRIBAL PEOPLE, just like Jews.

This? Are you a 'this'?

Yes, I am part of a this, the this being the People of Israel.

Jewish is a religious identifier except to the ignorant.

Perhaps if you say it 100x it will come true.

The word Jewish means anything related to Jews. Thus you can use the adjective for any number of things: Jewish People, Jewish food, Jewish religion, Jewish culture, etc.

The word Jews refers to a tribal people, aka the People of Israel.

 

[crossfire]

Ok. But was it the biblical river of mitsrayim?

Being that the Nile River Valley is where the practice of circumcision arose thousands of years ago, I would have to say that this the most likely place where Abraham picked the practice up.

 

[Bthoth]

~eye-rolls~



I have no idea what you're saying right now. You were saying before that all religious identifiers should be erased.

~eye-rolls~

No one is going to agree to that especially with Judaism.

Judaism is a religion. I like Jews, i just dont like seeing the label used in a negative or suggesting that Israel represents judaism.

I'm just sharing how it looks outside of your brain. You wishing for a world without religious identifiers is far-fetched and outlandish.

~eye-rolls~

you make up tangents as you go.

No it's just common sense. They cannot join if they are subversive and oppositional. it has nothing to do with purity and dross.

People that keep the rules, are not like israel, the dross per tanakh (ezek 22) to be specific. That chapter is not talking about Jews.

 

[Aupmanyav]

The "quote" feature on the forum would greatly assist me ( and probably others ) understand what you're referring to here.

Daniel, Dan., I was discussing with Crossfire the deposition of Bharat Jhunjhunwala that Yadavas, an Aryan tribe from India went and became the Jews in the Levant. If it ever happened so, my belief is that name of "Youdheyas", a lower Punjab warrior tribe, is better suited to become known as "Judah'. The word Youdheya derived from Yuddha (war). They had a union of three tribes and called themselves "Youdheya Sama-vargi" (Youdheyas of equal importance), which the Greek historians of Alexander took as "Sambagrae".

 

[Aupmanyav]

(Heck, I don't even understand your aversion to the terms atheist or pagan, for that matter, either.)

I love both the words. I feel complemented and proud if someone calls me 'pagan' or 'kafir', because for me that would mean 'following the religion of my ancestors' rather than following any new-fangled teaching.

 

[dybmh]

~eye-rolls~



Judaism is a religion. I like Jews, i just dont like seeing the label used in a negative or suggesting that Israel represents judaism.

~eye-rolls~

you make up tangents as you go.

People that keep the rules, are not like israel, the dross per tanakh (ezek 22) to be specific. That chapter is not talking about Jews.

nah, those are all uninformed opinions.

If those in Eze 22 are not Jews then the law is not incumbent on them. Therefore there is no crime. Do you understand how laws work? As an employer, for example, I have certain legal obligations that my employees don't have. If they, the employees, don't follow the laws that are incumbent on me, there is no crime. Get it?

If they weren't Jews, there is no crime.

 

[Aupmanyav]

.. them children are not guilty for what the nasty have done.

That is the irony of war. Men, women and children of both the sides suffer for no fault of theirs. The nasty do not care. They build tunnels under mosques. In India too, they are known to store arms and stones in mosques.
Now the discussion stream has broken down like a river turning into a marsh in a desert. I forget what we were discussing.

 

[Bharat Jhunjhunwala]

Being that the Nile River Valley is where the practice of circumcision arose thousands of years ago, I would have to say that this the most likely place where Abraham picked the practice up.

Why should he .Pick it up.? Why can he not create?

 

[crossfire]

That is indeed possible. But there is no character parallel to abraham in the near eastern literature while rama matches him much. So east could refer to a local east within india.

Why should he .Pick it up.? Why can he not create?

Are there any stories of Rama creating circumcision?

 

[Bthoth]

If those in Eze 22 are not Jews then the law is not incumbent on them.

I am quite confident that the dross of that chapter are not jews. If you read the chapter, you could understand how it mirrors today's situations in palestine/israel.

Therefore there is no crime. Do you understand how laws work?

So that is how you break the rules so easily. In your mind it is no crime to oppress widows and orphans (fatherless)

If they weren't Jews, there is no crime.

Now i see how you denied israel was using the phosphorus munitions on the civilians of gaza in 2009. Israels are not the Jews.

 

[dybmh]

I am quite confident that the dross of that chapter are not jews. If you read the chapter, you could understand how it mirrors today's situations in palestine/israel.

Your confidence is baseless. If they are not Jews, there is no crime.

So that is how you break the rules so easily.

No. Laws that do not apply to me cannot be broken.

In your mind it is no crime to oppress widows and orphans (fatherless)

There is no reason for you to project that onto me.

Now i see how you denied israel was using the phosphorus munitions on the civilians of gaza in 2009. Israels are not the Jews.

That would be called facts and research.

They didn't use it on civilians, it was fired into the air, not on civilians. White-phosporous is currently in use as "smoke grenades" by America and by UK.

 

[Bthoth]

No, Jew is not a religious identifier (Jew being the noun, Jewish being the adjective). Jewish law determines who is a Jew. You really have nothing to say about it.

'worshiper of one god'

Exactly. The Lakota are neither a race nor a religion, just like Jews. The Lakota are a TRIBAL PEOPLE, just like Jews.

tribal? Now you want to compare yourself to indigenous indians.

I am now comprehending why talmud and midrash is compliled

Yes, I am part of a this, the this being the People of Israel.

And IDF?

The word Jewish means anything related to Jews.

does that include personal responsibility?

Thus you can use the adjective for any number of things: Jewish People, Jewish food, Jewish religion, Jewish culture, etc.

Maybe I have put the term on a pedestal of admiration for too long.

The word Jews refers to a tribal people, aka the People of Israel.

4th son of jacob.....