Yadavas Hebrews farmers. How come Jews thought Hebrews were slaves?

[Bthoth]

Possessing the M-124 gene is meaningless.

About like chosen by god................ meaningless drive

Some of it yes. The majority of it was taught to Moses at Sinai by YHVH. Here is an excellent essay descibing what was given at Sinai.

Even Mt Sinai was egypt, then and now!

The moses boy was raised in the house of pharaoh, since a child. The god he was speaking to was a pharoah.

The libraries that he would have learned from were egyptian.

The Torah is not increased.

Even the stories claim joshua, finished torah to account for why moses death was in exodus.

It exists as it has always existed. All the divine teachings and laws that have been brought out of it have always existed there. When I say always, I meant it literally. The divine source is eternal, the torah is also eternal.

It seems to be a hoax. Sure there's a mystery, and mysteries are compelling, but I ask again, WHY DO YOU BELIEVE IT?

Everyone knows that answer; It's your religion, not what is real.

The Torah is a more than a text. It is a written text which contains infinite layers of divine teachings and law combined with a set of divine teachings and laws which were expressed to Moses.

Sure He would have been exposed to the knowledge by living in the house of pharaoh, if you believe Torah was even possibly written-received by Moses. Best evidence is the commandments existed in Egypt well over 1000 yrs before moses was even born, just as circumcision was practiced in egypt before moses was even born.

These non-written expressions also have infinite layers.

If a person wants to learn it they study the Talmud in its original language.

Aramaic? Again, pointing to another set of teaching/language to learn about torah. Then expect that is the best answer knowing that it causes many to give up or purely to dissuade participation. That is how you believe yourself or your teachers to be superior.

The Torah was not increased. It's mysteries were probed, brought out, and revealed.

It seems to be a hoax. Sure there's a mystery, and mysteries are compelling, but I ask again, WHY DO YOU BELIEVE IT?

Mount Sinai (1312 BCE)
1. Moses
2. Joshua

Yep there is joshua............ I knew that!

The Elders (l260-860 BCE)
3. Pinchas and the 70 Elders
4. Eli the Kohen
5. Samuel the Prophet
6. King David

The Prophets (860-360 BCE)
7. Achiyah
8. Elijah the Prophet
9. Elisha
10. Yehoyada the Priest
11. Zechariah ben Yehoyada
12. Hosea
13. Amos
14. Isaiah
15. Micah
16. Joel
17. Nachum
18. Habakuk
19. Zephaniah
20. Jeremiah
21. Baruch ben Neriah

The Great Assembly (360-260 BCE)
22. The Great Assembly consisted of 120 Elders, including Ezra, Zechariah, Daniel and Mordechai
23. Shimon the Tzaddik

TANA'IM - Mishnaic Era (260 BCE - 200 CE)
24. Antigonos of Socho
25. Yose ben Yoezer, Yose ben Yochanan
26. Yehoshua ben Perachiah, Nittai of Arbel
27. Yehuda ben Tabbai, Shimon ben Shatach
28. Shemayah and Avtalyon
29. Hillel and Shamai
30. R' Shimon ben Hillel, R' Yochanan ben Zakkai
31. Rabban Gamliel the Elder, R' Eliezer ben Hyrcanus, R' Yehoshua ben Chananiah, R' Shimon ben Netanel, R' Elazar ben Arakh
32. Rabban Shimon ben Gamliel I, Rebbe Akiva, Rebbe Tarfon, R' Shimon ben Elazar, R' Yochanan ben Nuri
33. Rabban Gamliel II, Rebbe Meir, Rebbe Yishmael, Rebbe Yehudah, Rebbe Yose, R' Shimon bar Yochai
34. Rabbi Shimon ben Gamliel II
35. Rabbi Yehudah the Prince (codifier of the Mishnah in 190 C.E.)

AMORA'IM - Talmudic Era (200-500 CE)
36. Rav, Shmuel, Rabbi Yochanan (compiler of the Jerusalem Talmud)
37. Rav Huna, Rav Yehudah, Rav Nachman, Rav Kahana, Rabba bar bar Channa, Rav Ami, Rav Asi
38. Rabbah, Rav Yosef, Rav Chisda, Rabba bar Rav Huna.
39. Abaya, Rava
40. Rav Ashi, Ravina (compilers of the Babylonian Talmud in 500 C.E.)

Yep a whole bunch of additions when it is clear by your education that you actually have no idea or purely never taught to question that your premise/foundations are completely off.


It seems to be a hoax. Sure there's a mystery, and mysteries are compelling, but I ask again, WHY DO YOU BELIEVE IT?

 

[YoursTrue]

@Bharat Jhunjhunwala what was etymology language?


@sayak83 How do people figure out the dates for 5000 BCE? Do they study planets and stars for this? I'm for Evolution, was Moses for Evolution too?


@YoursTrue What is nuclear?

What words in Hebrew are similar to the four Yugas?


View attachment 84071

OK, interesting question, and I don't know the answer. Plus I'm just learning about nuclear dates so I will leave this discussion. Thanks.

 

[Bthoth]

your mistake on the Akkadian language being ancient.. ancient Ancient Hebrew-Canaanite --

Semitic language group.

Hebrew is actually not even relevant in historical or archaeology research

"Same Family of Language" .. = Akkadian the great great great grandpa --

I know............

I couldn't find anything about phonetic glyphs in 3200 BC ..

Look into the history and invention of writing.

Hebrew's parent language is Canaanite ..

Again hebrew is not even relevant except to the religiously biased.

It was about extinct until the 19th century when zionism began.

 

[Sargonski]

Semitic language group.

Hebrew is actually not even relevant in historical or archaeology research



I know............



Look into the history and invention of writing.

Again hebrew is not even relevant except to the religiously biased.

It was about extinct until the 19th century when zionism began.

Your claim about historical relevance is pure nonsense .. and yes Akkadian is a Semetic language group -- but WHO CARES .. what is your the point you are trying to get at prior to drilling down all these rabbit holes.

 

[crossfire]

Mu-ṣur in neo-Assyrian Akkadian (as seen on the Rassam cylinder).

See these posts

The Amarna letters to the Egyptian rulers of the time (found in Amarna) were written in Akkadian cuniform and uses the name Misri to refer to Egypt.
The Rassam cylinder from Ninneveh uses the term Mu-ṣur.
I'm sure you can find more examples if you did a little investigation into the matter.

Time is 1350 bce plus.

after 1500 BCE.

1300 BCE.
No evidence at 1900 BCE Abraham's Mitsrayim. So these can be taken from Indus to Linear B and Hurrian,

 

[crossfire]

The amarna tablets are in akkadian between Egypts Pharaoh ahkenatan and the New Kingdom (levant).

Not Good enough according to our friend. See post #485

 

[Sargonski]

See these posts

are you having trouble articulating your point ... "So these can be taken from Indus to Linear B and Hurrian" what can be taken from indus to linear B and hurrian ?

 

[River Sea]

The development of writing: which script were the 10 commandments written in?
View attachment 84032

@crossfire Here's what I learned, and look how similar Indus and Sumer were.

 

[crossfire]

are you having trouble articulating your point ... "So these can be taken from Indus to Linear B and Hurrian" what can be taken from indus to linear B and hurrian ?

I gave him examples of Egypt being called similar to Miszaim in these languages, he said too late, wants earlier dates--1900 BCE. Writing was limited in the area at that time. He claims they don't necessarily refer to Egypt. I couldn't find the name for Egypt in the old Akkadian.

 

[crossfire]

@crossfire Here's what I learned, and look how similar Indus and Sumer were.

View attachment 84075

Cylinder seals have been found even in Egypt.

 

[crossfire]

I really don't understand why Mycenae Greek Linear B Mi-sa-ra-jo would refer to someone from the Indus Valley instead of an Egyptian, especially since that Indus Valley civilization had already mostly dissipated by that time.

 

[Sargonski]

I gave him examples of Egypt being called similar to Miszaim in these languages, he said too late, wants earlier dates--1900 BCE. Writing was limited in the area at that time. He claims they don't necessarily refer to Egypt. I couldn't find the name for Egypt in the old Akkadian.

Right .. this is a stupid argument .. as even if we don't have a record of Egypt being called Miszaim -- well .. we know they called it something .. it is not like the Babylonians and Assyrians did not know of the Existence of Egypt.. and have a word that great empire in their language. In the Bronze age these nations were trading with Places as far away as India - Greece - Sardinia .. and even England .. and of course .. Egypt.

Mizraim is the Hebrew cognate of a common Semitic source word for the land now known as Egypt. It is similar to Miṣr in modern Arabic, Misri in the 14th century B.C. Akkadian Amarna tablets,[2] Mṣrm in Ugaritic, [3] Mizraim in Neo-Babylonian texts,[4] and Mu-ṣur in neo-Assyrian Akkadian (as seen on the Rassam cylinder)

I mean what is the problem -- the fellow doesn't like Hebrew .. oK .. what part of "common Semetic Source word for the land known as Egypt" is not clear as clear can be.. Mizraim is the Akkadian word for Egypt.

We do realize that Assyrian and Babylonian is the same root language I hope .. Akkadian .. Thanks to our Friend Sargon in 2300 BC.

Semitic language group.

Hebrew is actually not even relevant in historical or archaeology research

1) Hebrew is relevant 2) it is a Semetic Language .. 3) Akkadian .. Babylonian .. Assyrian are also Semetic Languages .. and in this language - neo-babylonian for example Egypt is called Mizraim .. MSRM in Ugaritic .. Mu-Sur in Assyrian --

Don't understand what the big debate here is over .. what this has to do with the hebrews being Nomadic Tribes living in the high-lands being take as slaves from time to time .. to feed the slave economy.

 

[Bthoth]

Your claim about historical relevance is pure nonsense ..

Where is Hebrew, the language is used for archaeology/history other than religious interpretation. Please show me something.

and yes Akkadian is a Semetic language group -- but WHO CARES

Because akkadian dialogue is used and translated in archaeological finds

.. what is your the point you are trying to get at prior to drilling down all these rabbit holes.

You'e the one digging the holes, I just made clear observational comments to help. For example; other than bible/torah, there is no evidence of Hebrews as slaves especially in egypt. The topic is about hebrew slaves. There is a story of an exodus of hebrews from Egypt as slaves. Funny part is, Hebrew the language, did not exist during that time period. Moses 14th-13th Century BCE, Oldest hebrew writing, 10th century BCE.

The slavery was most likely that the population (egyptians) was held under rule by the religious authority and Ahkenatan left thebes to open up amarna. That is perhaps the closest exodus from egypt. What to observe is the evidence as the rule before religious material. Especially when the religious material is not even close to the time periods of the story setting.

Dont get mad at me, I tried to prove the flood story as a child as i actually wanted to have solid proof for that story too.

 

[Sargonski]

I really don't understand why Mycenae Greek Linear B Mi-sa-ra-jo would refer to someone from the Indus Valley instead of an Egyptian, especially since that Indus Valley civilization had already mostly dissipated by that time.

The indus valley language has relationships to the indo European Language .. Sanscrit for example is related to Indo-European Languages. .. really don't get why we would bring Linear B -- into the conversation some similar word that means something else .. so what .. ?

 

[Sargonski]

Where is Hebrew, the language is used for archaeology/history other than religious interpretation. Please show me something.

Because akkadian dialogue is used and translated in archaeological finds

You'e the one digging the holes, I just made clear observational comments to help. For example; other than bible/torah, there is no evidence of Hebrews as slaves especially in egypt. The topic is about hebrew slaves. There is a story of an exodus of hebrews from Egypt as slaves. Funny part is, Hebrew the language, did not exist during that time period. Moses 14th-13th Century BCE, Oldest hebrew writing, 10th century BCE.

The slavery was most likely that the population (egyptians) was held under rule by the religious authority and Ahkenatan left thebes to open up amarna. That is perhaps the closest exodus from egypt. What to observe is the evidence as the rule before religious material. Especially when the religious material is not even close to the time periods of the story setting.

Dont get mad at me, I tried to prove the flood story as a child as i actually wanted to have solid proof for that story too.

The hebrew languaged is used in the post you are responding to ?? and Yes .. Hebrew is related to Akkadian and the Israelites most certainly used this language for international commerce .... as did everyone else.

your claim that there is no evidence of hebrews as slaves is simply false .. Hebrews were Nomadic Tribes in the High-Lands .. ripe for the picking for Slavers. Slavery was a huge part of the Economy.. where did you think they were getting their slaves from in Egypt ?

I did not claim that Ancient Hebrew was the language spoken by the Hebres 14th - 13th century BC .. they spoke some kind of Canaanite dialect .. them and all the other Canaanites. .. this having nothing to do with the fact that there were plenty of proto-Hebrew slaves in Egypt --

 

[Bthoth]

1) Hebrew is relevant 2) it is a Semetic Language ..

Correct.... The language group is what is semetic, not a tribe chosen by god. The hebrew language is not relevant to finding answers regarding the geopolitical situation of the region.

3) Akkadian .. Babylonian .. Assyrian are also Semetic Languages .. and in this language - neo-babylonian for example Egypt is called Mizraim .. MSRM in Ugaritic .. Mu-Sur in Assyrian --

OK...... Does mizraim control the levant during the time period claimed as an exodus (moses lifetime)?

Don't understand what the big debate here is over .. what this has to do with the hebrews being Nomadic Tribes

Funny, the word 'Arab' in semitic etymology means "Nomadic" (nomads)

living in the high-lands being take as slaves from time to time .. to feed the slave economy.

Sure, Arabs have been taken as slaves and now a whole bunch are being held in concentration camp Gaza.

Where I get a little bent is how some folk think that they control a narrative just because they were 'trained' to keep that narrative. And if a few do not accept that narrative, they claim to go back and read hebrew............ It's a joke and sad at the same time.

 

[crossfire]

1] Egypt was known as KMT before 13c BCE. No place named Misr ever. Indus had the city named Mathura in literature from 2000 BCE. 2] Pharaoh title could be redacted. In any case it is weak circumstantial evidence. 3] Multiple geographical problems. 3a] Egypt no parting of the sea. Indus: Obstruction of Indus River by mud volcano. 3b] Egypt No volcano at Sinai. Indus Taftan. 3c] No need to go to Aqaba, the third Yam Suf. The third Yam suf would be Shatt al-Arab. 4] No character parallel to Moses in Egyptian literature. Krishna is parallel. 4a] Kills Kamsa (~Mistrite) and flees. 4b] Returns. 4c] Leaves for unknown country ~ Exodus. 4d] Brothers kill each other ~ Killng at Sinai.

Pl see "Out of India" theory. There is plentiful.

THat is why Exodus from Egypt does not hold. In any event, Jews have intermarried hence cannot extrapolate from present.

Not confirmed. Mehrgarh may be earlier. In any event inward farming transfer at 7m BCE and outward Exodus at 1500 BCE can go together.

No it does not.

Nor do tribals and many others.

Exactly. So they dont fit into 4 caste system.

Right .. this is a stupid argument .. as even if we don't have a record of Egypt being called Miszaim -- well .. we know they called it something .. it is not like the Babylonians and Assyrians did not know of the Existence of Egypt.. and have a word that great empire in their language. In the Bronze age these nations were trading with Places as far away as India - Greece - Sardinia .. and even England .. and of course .. Egypt.



I mean what is the problem -- the fellow doesn't like Hebrew .. oK .. what part of "common Semetic Source word for the land known as Egypt" is not clear as clear can be.. Mizraim is the Akkadian word for Egypt.

We do realize that Assyrian and Babylonian is the same root language I hope .. Akkadian .. Thanks to our Friend Sargon in 2300 BC.



1) Hebrew is relevant 2) it is a Semetic Language .. 3) Akkadian .. Babylonian .. Assyrian are also Semetic Languages .. and in this language - neo-babylonian for example Egypt is called Mizraim .. MSRM in Ugaritic .. Mu-Sur in Assyrian --

Don't understand what the big debate here is over .. what this has to do with the hebrews being Nomadic Tribes living in the high-lands being take as slaves from time to time .. to feed the slave economy.

I agree with you that it is a silly argument

The indus valley language has relationships to the indo European Language .. Sanscrit for example is related to Indo-European Languages. .. really don't get why we would bring Linear B -- into the conversation some similar word that means something else .. so what .. ?

See his post quoted at the top--I highlighted where he said "No place named Misr ever." I gave examples from several languages, including Linear B. Not good enough for him. (Egypt also called itself "the Two Lands" referring to Upper and Lower Egypt, which is probably where the term Miszraim came from--the two lands.

 

[Bthoth]

The hebrew languaged is used in the post you are responding to ?? and Yes .. Hebrew is related to Akkadian and the Israelites most certainly used this language for international commerce .... as did everyone else.

What? After 1947 perhaps............ OK.. What's that got to do with Hebrew slaves.

your claim that there is no evidence of hebrews as slaves is simply false .. Hebrews were Nomadic Tribes in the High-Lands .. ripe for the picking for Slavers. Slavery was a huge part of the Economy..

Evidence......?

That's what I am looking for. Hebrew slaves. The nomads are what the semitic term Arabs means. Hebrew is of the semitic language group.

Arab is the semitic word for nomads (nomadic tribes).

See how many 'rabbit holes' you are digging into with your narrative!

where did you think they were getting their slaves from in Egypt ?

OK, the africans were taking Arabs as slaves. I get it.

Ooops, perhaps you forgot that kush and the egyptian foundations are of the african continent.

I did not claim that Ancient Hebrew was the language spoken by the Hebres 14th - 13th century BC .. they spoke some kind of Canaanite dialect .. them and all the other Canaanites. .. this having nothing to do with the fact that there were plenty of proto-Hebrew slaves in Egypt --

Proto schmoto................ Nothing! I get it.
The armana tablets are the best evidence of the languages for the region. Letters to the egyptian leadership, because they ruled the levant during that whole proto 14-13 Century BCE time period.

I was asking for the exodus time period, since that story (exodus) is so important to so many people. And specifically about slaves.
But as the amarna letters prove, that whole 'promised land' was egyptian controlled vassals. So what's an exodus from egypt to egypts New Kingdom lands (the levant)?

And if the slaves were speaking semitic languages as nomads of the levant, then Arabs they were in the semitic dialect of the region.

 

[crossfire]

I mean, crimeny, the term was used in the Amarna letters to the Pharaoh of Egypt himself. What more proof could he want?

 

[Bthoth]

Not Good enough according to our friend. See post #485

No idea what your point is. The amarna letters (hundreds of them) do exist and the majority are from the vassals of the levant to the house of pharaoh, Egypt.