Yemeni child bride dies after internal bleeding on marriage night

[FearGod]

Do I have to explain the difference between child rapists in the West being CHARGED WITH A CRIME and facing jail time, and child rapists in backward Islamic tribes being CELEBRATED AND HONOURED as righteous Muslims, in countries where it is NOT ILLEGAL to purchase and rape a child?

I hope not.

Do i have to explain to you that rapist kidnaps and uses force against his victim and he may kill her intentionally after getting his purpose.

We can agree that child marriage is a bad practice
we can agree it is wrong and awful

But i disagree to call one RF member as a rapist.

 

[Alceste]

Do i have to explain to you that rapist kidnaps and uses force against his victim and he may kill her intentionally after getting his purpose.

We can agree that child marriage is a bad practice
we can agree it is wrong and awful

But i disagree to call one RF member as a rapist.

In my country, an adult having sex with a child is rape. Always. In every single situation. Even if you paid good money for her. Even if her parents consented and even set the whole thing up. Even if they pressured HER into not putting up a fight. ALL sex that an adult has with a child WILL be prosecuted if the authorities find out about it and believe they have enough evidence to convict.

I'm not "calling one member a rapist". I'm calling sex with a child rape. And I'm not at all fussed if all the adults on RF who have or advocate sex with children are feeling wounded. If that's the only consequence they'll every face for their crimes, IMO, it isn't enough.

I love how this issue (of all possible issues) suddenly turns so many people who would ordinarily rail against moral relativism - in favour of God-given universal moral instruction -into moral relativists.

 

[FearGod]

Irrelevant. The entire notion that menstruation demonstrates that a female child is ready for sex is ignorant and absurd.

Again im not defending child marriage,but for scientific integrity some girls
are women at ages between 8-16.

Do you know what women means

The passage from girl to woman is called puberty. It begins for girls anywhere from age 8 to 16; the average age is 11

Reference : The Female Body | FactMonster.com

 

[LuisDantas]

Again im not defending child marriage,but for scientific integrity some girls
are women at ages between 8-16.

Do you know what women means

The passage from girl to woman is called puberty. It begins for girls anywhere from age 8 to 16; the average age is 11

Reference : The Female Body | FactMonster.com

That is just a biological fact, and one subject to some variation at that.

For a girl to truly become a woman, there must be a certain level of emotional maturity that is all but impossible to have before 14 years of age or so. And in any case, no girl or woman should be simply expected to submit to a husband. Her feelings and mental state must be considered at all times.

 

[Alceste]

Again im not defending child marriage,but for scientific integrity some girls
are women at ages between 8-16.

Do you know what women means

The passage from girl to woman is called puberty. It begins for girls anywhere from age 8 to 16; the average age is 11

Reference : The Female Body | FactMonster.com

For the love of God, man! A ten year old child is NOT a woman! Even if she has the beginnings of breasts. Even if she menstruates.

Are you blind that you can't tell the difference between a woman and a child???????

Boys start having erections as infants. Even in utero. Do you think they're also ready for sex at that age?

 

[Koldo]

Again im not defending child marriage,but for scientific integrity some girls
are women at ages between 8-16.

Do you know what women means

The passage from girl to woman is called puberty. It begins for girls anywhere from age 8 to 16; the average age is 11

Reference : The Female Body | FactMonster.com

Two important things to mention:

1) Your source says that pubety is the passage and that it begins between 8 to 16. Therefore, a girl only becomes a full-fledged woman once the puberty is over.

2) For most uses, adulthood is not a concept that relies solely on puberty.

 

[outhouse]

Again im not defending child marriage,but for scientific integrity some girls
are women at ages between 8-16.

This is nothing more then ignorant garbage.

No 8 year old is a woman.


Stop making pathetic excuses, and try and stop these acts that are not moral.

 

[LuisDantas]

Men can **** men nowadays.

What do you think of gay marriage ?
Will you beat your uncle to death if he marry a 15 years old boy.
i don't know what age is allowed because gays got no periods !!!

Some 15-years olders might be mature enough to marry. Many will not.

It really comes down to how mature the person is.

 

[FearGod]

For the love of God, man! A ten year old child is NOT a woman! Even if she has the beginnings of breasts. Even if she menstruates.

Are you blind that you can't tell the difference between a woman and a child???????

Boys start having erections as infants. Even in utero. Do you think they're also ready for sex at that age?

From medical perspective she is a woman depending on puberty,some start at 8 and others may reach it at 16.

So do you think she is a woman at age of 16,what about if 15,14,13,12

Do those years make any difference for you or do you think girls should be called women at age of 30s.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

i aint making any excuse to anyone,but i just point to one fact and which is that such practice is cultural in origin and religion has nothing to do with it.

One RF member said that it isn't normal for a girl to have a period at the age of 10,so just to correct his/her information i pointed out to the fact that it is normal for some girs to have it at 8 which i supported with a reputable medical reference,so that doesn't mean i defend child marriage,but just correcting one's information.

Which is all well and good. However, you did agree with the following statement:

I am personally opposed to child marriage, but what right do I have to judge other cultures? If a man marries a child and is a faithful loving caring husband to her, that is different from nabbing her off the street and leaving her alone and abused and saying this is the same thing.

Perfectly said. :yes:

This statement sounds, to me, like it is entirely about making excuses for the culture that permits or encourages the abuse of children through underage marriage in the guise of "not having the right to judge" and claiming that there is justification for the practice on the grounds that they may be married to "faithful", "loving" or "caring husbands".

Perhaps you agreed less with this more permissive sentiment than with some other aspect of the argument being made, but it reads to be like nothing but an argument to excuse underage marriage and the practice of it in certain cultures.

 

[LuisDantas]

From medical perspective she is a woman depending on puberty,some start at 8 and others may reach it at 16.

Ability to conceive is not ability to give proper consent for marriage.

So do you think she is a woman at age of 16,what about if 15,14,13,12

Do those years make any difference for you or do you think girls should be called women at age of 30s.

Some girls will in fact never be ready to marry. It is rare, but hardly unknown.

Age brackets are simply no good excuse to force girl.

 

[FearGod]

This is nothing more then ignorant garbage.

No 8 year old is a woman.


Stop making pathetic excuses, and try and stop these acts that are not moral.

i have aready confirmed what i had said with scientific references,so if you want to call those scientific institutes as ignorant garbage because they don't agree with your level of knowledge,then you are free to call them BS if you wish.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Again im not defending child marriage,but for scientific integrity some girls
are women at ages between 8-16.

Do you know what women means

The passage from girl to woman is called puberty. It begins for girls anywhere from age 8 to 16; the average age is 11

Reference : The Female Body | FactMonster.com

Do you believe that adolescence doesn't exist? It's the process of becoming an adult. There is no clear delineation between a child and an adult. There never has been. And there never will be. Hormone adjustments take years when the body matures to another stage in life, and one that prepares a body for childbirth, for work, for parenthood is one that takes years, not an overnight spot on the underwear.

That's for cultural rituals to signify the beginning of the change.

Kind of like menopause. A woman does not suddenly become infertile. She adjusts over the course of years from a menstrual cycle to no cycle and infertility. Pregnancy lasts 9 months because a woman doesn't suddenly go from "maiden" to "mother" overnight. And a woman doesn't become a "wise woman" or "crone" or "elder" overnight either. These bodily processes take years to complete before the next stage is fully entered.

So, no, I disagree with your contention that a girl becomes a woman when she gets her period and potentially can gestate a fetus. When we determine adulthood based on biological processes rather than cultural norms, we see more "coming-of-age" permissions granted based not on the presence of pubic hair but on cognitive ability, brain development, and a base level of life experience with changing bodies. In our country, we don't let kids drive a car until they're 16. They can't legally drink until they're 21. They can't have a full time job until they're 18. They can't own a gun until they're 18.

I feel the same about marriage and the expectations that come with it. I think teens need time to develop and carve out their identities and to be fully educated on sex and contraception so that they can pair their knowledge with their own individual resolve.

If we should expect knowledge and resolve to be supported when it comes to enlisting in the military or buying a house or owning a gun, then I think we should expect the same age range for marriage. Child marriage is an archaic concept, and I hope to see one day a thing of the past and as seen as barbaric as prisoners being drawn and quartered.

Because, let's face it, this 11-year-old Yemeni girl was tortured before she died. All because she was considered fully ready to consummate a marriage with an adult male.

 

[FearGod]

Which is all well and good. However, you did agree with the following statement:





This statement sounds, to me, like it is entirely about making excuses for the culture that permits or encourages the abuse of children through underage marriage in the guise of "not having the right to judge" and claiming that there is justification for the practice on the grounds that they may be married to "faithful", "loving" or "caring husbands".

Perhaps you agreed less with this more permissive sentiment than with some other aspect of the argument being made, but it reads to be like nothing but an argument to excuse underage marriage and the practice of it in certain cultures.

No i agree with Rev Rick in pointing to the difference between child marriage and the rapist,they are never the same.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

i have aready confirmed what i had said with scientific references,so if you want to call those scientific institutes as ignorant garbage because they don't agree with your level of knowledge,then you are free to call them BS if you wish.

None of your scientific sources agree with your assessment. Saying "puberty may start in some girls as early as 8 years of age" does not mean "an eight year old who has started puberty is a woman, who is emotionally, physically and mentally capable of giving informed consent with regards to sex and marriage".

 

[Koldo]

From medical perspective she is a woman depending on puberty,some start at 8 and others may reach it at 16.

So do you think she is a woman at age of 16,what about if 15,14,13,12

Do those years make any difference for you or do you think girls should be called women at age of 30s.

Please read my previous reply to you.

What you are saying is not correct, and i have explained why on point #1.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

No i agree with Rev Rick in pointing to the difference between child marriage and the rapist,they are never the same.

I don't think anyone was comparing the two like that, merely pointing out that child marriage is morally wrong regardless of cultural origin. Did you or did you not agree with the statement that you have no right to judge a culture which permits marriage and sex between adults and children as young as eight?

 

[Alceste]

From medical perspective she is a woman depending on puberty,some start at 8 and others may reach it at 16.

So do you think she is a woman at age of 16,what about if 15,14,13,12

Do those years make any difference for you or do you think girls should be called women at age of 30s.

I think, just as mystic's earlier post proves beyond reasonable doubt, that female children are at an extremely, unacceptably high risk of permanent injury or death if forced to start having sex before their bodies are fully grown.

That's the END of puberty, not the start.

For someone who claims they don't endorse the rape of female children, you seem awfully confused about what is or isn't a child.

 

[FearGod]

Do you believe that adolescence doesn't exist? It's the process of becoming an adult. There is no clear delineation between a child and an adult. There never has been. And there never will be. Hormone adjustments take years when the body matures to another stage in life, and one that prepares a body for childbirth, for work, for parenthood is one that takes years, not an overnight spot on the underwear.

That's for cultural rituals to signify the beginning of the change.

Kind of like menopause. A woman does not suddenly become infertile. She adjusts over the course of years from a menstrual cycle to no cycle and infertility. Pregnancy lasts 9 months because a woman doesn't suddenly go from "maiden" to "mother" overnight. And a woman doesn't become a "wise woman" or "crone" or "elder" overnight either. These bodily processes take years to complete before the next stage is fully entered.

So, no, I disagree with your contention that a girl becomes a woman when she gets her period and potentially can gestate a fetus. When we determine adulthood based on biological processes rather than cultural norms, we see more "coming-of-age" permissions granted based not on the presence of pubic hair but on cognitive ability, brain development, and a base level of life experience with changing bodies. In our country, we don't let kids drive a car until they're 16. They can't legally drink until they're 21. They can't have a full time job until they're 18. They can't own a gun until they're 18.

I feel the same about marriage and the expectations that come with it. I think teens need time to develop and carve out their identities and to be fully educated on sex and contraception so that they can pair their knowledge with their own individual resolve.

If we should expect knowledge and resolve to be supported when it comes to enlisting in the military or buying a house or owning a gun, then I think we should expect the same age range for marriage. Child marriage is an archaic concept, and I hope to see one day a thing of the past and as seen as barbaric as prisoners being drawn and quartered.

Because, let's face it, this 11-year-old Yemeni girl was tortured before she died. All because she was considered fully ready to consummate a marriage with an adult male.

knowledge and experiences is a different thing at all.

of course i agree a woman at age of 12 don't got the knowledge as a woman of age 30 and i agree too that women should be married in our recent days not before 24 and even over.

But that is a cultural thing similar to female circumcision in Egypt which is now punishable by law.

Yemen isn't able to control the pratice for those tribes,it is realy pathetic.

 

[outhouse]

of course i agree a woman at age of 12 .

Therer is no such thing as a 12 year old woman, she is still a child.