Well something about religion gives people the beliefs that they can do this. Not the core belief structure, but the rituals and fanfare that surround them. So I find it hard to say that "Person who does X is not a follower of Y" Simply because they are getting it from somewhere. Regardless if that was originally the intent
I personally tend to label people by their actions, and not judge their actions by their label.
If the Quran directly said, that the Prophet married a 9 year old girl, and subsequently had sex with her, then I could see that Islam would and could be held more responsible for this, but it doesn't, and actually opposes it in many different ways in many different instances. Even the Muslim who defended marrying a 10 year old stated that nowhere in the Quran does it state that it is ok to marry underage children. If that's not enough for you then I don't know what is?
Peace
Firstly
Islam does not allow marriage to under aged children.
So why did you do it?
But a hadith being authentic or not IS a big deal. Why you brush it off and say such isn't a big deal, shows your incompetence in this subject of Islamic studies. There are people who go to schools for years, just to learn the science of hadith and authenticating them.
Hadith is not sacred. And it is not all taken at the same level and every other one.
At least base your argument on correct info instead of spreading bs
Exactly
One hadith can be wrong, but many different sources testify to the fact that Muhammad was a morally corrupt person. Be it the massacre of tribes, deception or rape, nothing was unknown to Muhammad.
Can you cite some of those sources?
instead of trying to solve the problem
Your only trying to defend a religion that in places and primitive cultures, still find this acceptable.
How do you suggest we go about solving this problem, you wanna go on a trip to Yemen with me? Do you wan't to lobby congress to send military force to stop things like this from happening ever again?
Sorry, but yet again religion has nothing to do with this? This is a strictly a "primitive culture" thing in my opinion. Yet again, Turkey is a predominately Muslim state and it just raised the marriage age to 17.
Im proud to have muslim family but I dont go around trying to defend it from those who have credible criticism. Correct not all muslim scholars accept this I understand, it is those that do why we are talking about this.
They are in direct contradiction of the Quran if they support this. Credible criticism would be that poor education, high level of poverty, and low standard of living contribute to acts like these. Criticism towards a religion that has no basis for supporting this type of act from their holy book, is not credible in my opinion.
And if we go by this criteria, then we have to use it against other religions too no?
What the Bible says about pedophilia
Do you also believe that Christianity supports pedophilia? Are do judge the acts of the individuals indepndently of their self imposed label?
He isn't saying that you are defending child marriage. He is saying that you are defending Islam from credible criticism.
"Im proud to have muslim family but I dont go around trying to defend it from those who have credible criticism. But for some reason you are."
In what way has this been credible criticism. If the Holy book of a religion does not support these type of actions in any way shape or form, how can you still hold the religion responsible instead of the people that commit the actions?
My main case are those in this very thread who have not only defended it, but admitted to it.
And in case you didn't see, the guy that admitted to it, said that his actions are not condoned by the Quran.
Added to the information, that their hero/messiah also possibly committed this barbaric act.
Cite some sources please, and do you feel the same way about Moses? Or is that totally different?
What the Bible says about pedophilia
One should however point out that Islamic societies (which are still curiously elusive, to the point that it is unclear if there was ever any) seem to have failed at discouraging those practices, despite their apparent success at attaining other goals.
Yet again, because someone claims that they are something does that mean that they are that which they claim?
1. Should Yemen (55% Sunni, 45% Shia) be considered an Islamic society?
No, number 3, 4, and 12.
The Koran vs. Sharia at a glance
2. Should we expect an Islamic society to consider avoiding child marriage part of his duty?
Yes, Turkey.
3. Whose responsibility is it to call for better moral principles in Yemen, if the need is perceived? Is it in part Islam's? Is it completely so?
Everyones, and most definitely those adherents to the Quran.
4. Are there separate sources of responsibility for (say) the avoidance of events such as that criminal child "marriage" and the avoidance of divorce and adultery in Yemen? Which would those be?
Yes, poverety, low standard of living, hunger, lack of clean water, lack of education, and the list goes on and on.
Its tough, because the culture isnt democratic per say as far as I know, religion is tied into the governement and its decisions.
Sharia, which forms most of the basis for these oppresive laws toward women and children, is not based on the Quran. I encourage you to do some research into pre-Islamic tribal law, and current Sharia law. Sharia law was formed into a system of law within Islam to control people, not because it is apart of Islam. It existed seperately, and should be recognized as a independent religion in my opinion, along with all Hadith.
Religious police? like other countries. I dont know their cultural system of law.
What country has religious police?
Virtually everyone in Yemen claims to be a Muslim, yet it is not a Islamic society and/or is not a right representative of Islam?
Are you something simply because you claim to be it? Judge people by their actions, and not by their words.
I truly have a hard time wrapping my head around this. There must be something important that I am just not understanding.
You claim to be a Buddhist, you adhere to the teachings and philosphies of the Buddha. If you were to become a serial killer, would you still be a Buddhist because you claimed to be, or would it be more prevelant to say that you are not a Buddhist because you do not follow the teachings within Buddhism?
But in the meantime we are still expected to acknowledge and respect the Islamic religious rights of those societies of Muslims that somehow are not quite Islamic?
Child marriage is not a religious right, it is a cultural right totally independent from Islam.
In all honesty, it sometimes looks like many societies are Islamic just until the time to admit some shortcoming comes.
Honestly, the only country that I would consider Islamic in any sense of the word be Turkey, but even then I don't think it's prevelent to call an entire society an adherent to a particular religion. There's not an umbrella big enough.
Once again, I will thank you for not trying to divert this issue by making it into a debate on Islamophobia rather than the actual issue of child marriage.
Consideriding that the OP, made the statement, "Why do Muslims think this is ok?" in the first post. How can it not be a debate on Islamophobia.
Never read it so I can't say, it's why I kept it as blank as religion. I'm Christian and Christians have done horrible things in the name of Christ, they truly believed in Christ but they still did them. Somewhere along the way, the lessons that holy books or holy scripture, or holy men give gets mixed into society in an attempt to appease the masses or bring in more converts or just by the way it's transmitted...idk...but somewhere along the lines people draw from their religion these negative aspects.
The same logic that people in this thread have accused Islam of promoting pedophilia could be made for a prophet in the Christian Bible. Does Christianity support pedophilia in your opinion?
What the Bible says about pedophilia
