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Yet another movie theater shooting.
- Thread starter jeager106
- Start date
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
Are you being sarcastic or serious?
There was one in Colorado just over three years ago.
Tumah
Veteran Member
A little bit of this one and a little but of that one.
Do you find the Wa Po balanced regarding Dems & Pubs?
Let me tell two true stories. One about Roger and one about Donnie.
Both guys are middle aged countrified gun people from way back, like generations. They both got their first gun before they discovered girls. Totally licensed, everything, they both have collected guns their whole lives.
I spent an afternoon helping Roger move his gun safe into his new lake house. The guns were in a secure location somewhere else, but the safe alone weighed a few hundred pounds. It had to be in the basement, because that was the only place in the house with reinforced structural concrete. Roger did not consider anything else sufficient to bolt the guns to.
Donnie had a batch of guns, about 10. Three were high performance rifles, one he inherited from his grandpa. Those were hunting. Two or three were pricey pistols for target practice and personal security. The others were more modest weapons for teaching and squirrels and such. They were stored in a wooden rack he built and mounted to his bedroom wall himself, with a cable that ran through the trigger guards. Nobody but he and his wife were allowed in the bedroom without permission. The guns were safe from the kids.
But not the thieves who walked in to the house about a month ago. They took his wife's jewelry, the new TV, and the guns. Nothing else. They didn't bother with the safety cable on the guns, they crowbarred the whole thing off the wall. The cops estimated that they were in and out of the house in less than five minutes. A house that doesn't lock. The police and everyone surmised that the thieves knew the family well enough to know that the house had people in and out all the time, except for late Sunday morning when they all went to church. Which is when they came.
Donnie thinks he is the big victim here. Especially after he found out that his insurance doesn't cover guns without a rider he never popped for. I see him as a criminal who donated 10 guns to the illegal weapons market. But since we are related by marriage I don't say that out loud.
Tom
Both guys are middle aged countrified gun people from way back, like generations. They both got their first gun before they discovered girls. Totally licensed, everything, they both have collected guns their whole lives.
I spent an afternoon helping Roger move his gun safe into his new lake house. The guns were in a secure location somewhere else, but the safe alone weighed a few hundred pounds. It had to be in the basement, because that was the only place in the house with reinforced structural concrete. Roger did not consider anything else sufficient to bolt the guns to.
Donnie had a batch of guns, about 10. Three were high performance rifles, one he inherited from his grandpa. Those were hunting. Two or three were pricey pistols for target practice and personal security. The others were more modest weapons for teaching and squirrels and such. They were stored in a wooden rack he built and mounted to his bedroom wall himself, with a cable that ran through the trigger guards. Nobody but he and his wife were allowed in the bedroom without permission. The guns were safe from the kids.
But not the thieves who walked in to the house about a month ago. They took his wife's jewelry, the new TV, and the guns. Nothing else. They didn't bother with the safety cable on the guns, they crowbarred the whole thing off the wall. The cops estimated that they were in and out of the house in less than five minutes. A house that doesn't lock. The police and everyone surmised that the thieves knew the family well enough to know that the house had people in and out all the time, except for late Sunday morning when they all went to church. Which is when they came.
Donnie thinks he is the big victim here. Especially after he found out that his insurance doesn't cover guns without a rider he never popped for. I see him as a criminal who donated 10 guns to the illegal weapons market. But since we are related by marriage I don't say that out loud.
Tom
Guns should be safely stored, but there are no guarantees in life.
What's the old saying.....
We make plans, & God laughs.
Good practice cannot ensure a perfect result, but it sure works better than inattention to risks.
Do you think Donnie has a right to buy more guns?
Do you think it a violation of his constitutional rights to demand access to his home any time of the day or night by the government if he buys another gun? Do you think he should be held accountable if any of those guns are used in a crime?
Tom
Yes.
And I'd advise him to take greater care in their storage.
Yes.
There's no need for surprise nitetime visits by government goons.
(Only "goons" would do such a thing at nite.)
No.
His precautions were reasonable, & their use in a crime was not immediately foreseeable.
Moreover, guns a fungible, so anyone bent on crime would procure one somehow.
Universal high security storage standards could curb that problem though.
Why do you think so?
This was doubtless advised before and still he didn't. I don't know though.
Why does he have the right to be irresponsible with other people's safety?
Tom
Because his initial measures failed.
I advocate greater responsibility for secure storage of dangerous things such as guns.
And I cannot justify the current legal climate.
That is my point. His lifetime of experience did not protect you and me from gun related violence. He put a bunch of guns out there for the taking.
So why does his initial failure give him a right to buy high powered weapons?
Tom
What is reasonable about the precautions? It took the thieves less than 5 minutes to take a gun collection. I could have stolen them. Except I don't steal things.
Tom
You expect reasonable precautions to be perfect?
You wouldn't argue that wearing a seatbelt is useless because one can die in a crash anyway.
Keeping guns in a safe is far far better than keeping them in a closet, which is common.
It sounded like the thieves had inside info, & were prepared to steal the guns.
Reasonable storage security is no guarantee against a very dedicated & skilled crew.
Even cops & the military have weapons get stolen.
Good precautions reduce theft greatly.
Aquitaine
Well-Known Member
I know, I know. I'm generally against prohibition of drugs, I just meant it in a more joking fashion.
No.
I'm saying that Donnie did not take reasonable precautions. By no stretch is leaving a batch of barely tied down weapons in an unlocked house reasonable precautions. And there are no consequences for this level of negligence. I think that is a huge part of the problem.
Tom
Using a safe is reasonable.
It's a much more effective barrier than a lock on a door.
As a landlord (doing locksmithing, not a burgling) I'd pick locks to get into units.
I've also drilled'm out, which is pretty easy if one knows where to drill.
But a safe.....they're harder to open, heavy, & awkward.
I move safes too (up to 12,000#), but this is far more difficult.
Exactly. Donnie liked his guns and liked showing them off. Everyone knows the thieves had already been in the room and knew that the guns weren't secure.
Roger has never had a gun stolen, and probably never will. Anyone who knows he has them also knows it would take dynamite or prying them out of his cold dead hands to get them.
Not impossible, but if gun owners were required to operate more like Roger there would be vastly less of a problem.
Tom
dust1n
Zindīq
Oh, in retrospect that should have been more obvious to me. Mind must be slippin'.