You can't have perfect knowledge through science

[idea]

nothing can be deduced if nothing is assumed… ~ Tautologies

science is built upon Axioms/postulates - axioms and postulates are accepted without demonstration and without proof, so all of science is built on a foundation of faith...

[FONT=&quot]http://planetmath.org/encyclopedia/Axiom.html[/FONT]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axiom
"In traditional logic, an axiom or postulate is a proposition that is not proved or demonstrated..."

when you start with something that "is not proved or demonstrated" and then build on this slippery slope - it is called faith.

The scientific method is based on a flawed axiom that we can know the reality through our senses. Unfortunately all human beings are subject to four defects:
1) Our senses are limited and imperfect
2) We make mistakes
3) We are in illusion
4) We cheat.

Due these defects we can not know the Truth through this method. In order to have perfect knowledge you must hear from higher authority. Just like if you want to know your father you have to ask your mother. You can't go to every man and test them.

This is a great intro lecture - not just for physics, but for all science imo. Yes, it is an hour long, but it makes you realize the limitations of our physical senses, gives a little bit larger realization of what is out there: [FONT=&quot]

[youtube]Q6Gw08pwhws[/youtube]
‪Lecture - 1 Classical Physics‬‏ - YouTube[/FONT]
this lecture let's you do the thought experiment of what we are able to perceive without any tools, without numbers, with only our eyes/ears etc. etc. ... when we realize that numbers/equations are only imaginary symbols and are not real ... what is actually real vs. what is only symbolic... many people mistakenly think the symbols are reality, when they are not...

This is also a good read: Gödel's incompleteness theorems - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[FONT=&quot]Gödel's incompleteness theorems, uncertainty principles, the observer effects - there is no, nor will there ever be, any "exact science"...
[/FONT]

 

[Madhuri]

We are Krishna's instruments to bring about that age. Arjuna didn't win the battle by just sitting on his chariot and accepting everything. Our actions are also part of God's Will and a lack of action will incur karma.

Arjuna performed his duty as a Kshatriya.
We are all called to perform our duty. Btw, I am trying to remember where it is written that there will be a golden age due to the appearance of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu. Could you remind me?

 

[Revoltingest]

science is built upon Axioms/postulates - axioms and postulates are accepted without demonstration and without proof, so all of science is built on a foundation of faith...

This is just silly. For example, the laws of thermodynamics were based entirely upon observation.
To call this "faith" is to grossly misuse the word.

[FONT=&quot]Gödel's incompleteness theorems, uncertainty principles, the observer effects - there is no, nor will there ever be, any "exact science"...[/FONT]

Meh....Godel is irrelevant. (Why do believers always get his work so very wrong?)
We already know about inexactness, & have been succeeding in spite of it.

 

[I-Ching]

That would be me.

I am a student of Kay sensei, student of Ohmi sensei, student of Haruna sensei, student of Yamashibu sensei, student of Yamamoto sensei, student of Oe Masamachi Roshu, 17th head of Muso Jikiden Eishin Ryu, founded by Hayashizake Jinsuke Minamoto Shigenobu.

There are four bonafida sampradyas(discilpic succession). That coming from Lord Brahma, Laksmi, Lord Shiva and the 4 Kumuras. I don't think yours qualifies.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

There are four bonafida sampradyas(discilpic succession). That coming from Lord Brahma, Laksmi, Lord Shiva and the 4 Kumuras. I don't think yours qualifies.

Says who?

Edit: did the same person who told you this also claim that he himself was part of a line of "bonafide" succession? If so, I'd say that he had a bit of a conflict of interest.

 

[Revoltingest]

There are four bonafida sampradyas(discilpic succession). That coming from Lord Brahma, Laksmi, Lord Shiva and the 4 Kumuras. I don't think yours qualifies.

Clearly, your list is inadequate....Father Heathen is not there.

 

[Father Heathen]

There are four bonafida sampradyas(discilpic succession). That coming from Lord Brahma, Laksmi, Lord Shiva and the 4 Kumuras. I don't think yours qualifies.

Lord Brahma, Laksmi, Lord Shiva and The 4 Kumuras have already pledged their fealty to me. I know this because I have seen it in a vision, and I have transcribed it into a holy text, which of course confirms and validates the vision.

 

[I-Ching]

Arjuna performed his duty as a Kshatriya.
We are all called to perform our duty. Btw, I am trying to remember where it is written that there will be a golden age due to the appearance of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu. Could you remind me?

Our spiritual duty is to preach and implement the Lords plan for simple living and higher thinking . I don't have the Vedabase with me at work so I can't look it up now.

 

[PolyHedral]

I assume that you are referring to allopathy, but Ayurveda offers a superior alternative. Ancient society has survived for centuries without allopathy.

It quite quantifiably doesn't offer a superior alternative; it did not exterminate smallpox. That act alone saved hundreds of millions of lives.

Re: ancient society: in what way is a >60% infant mortality rate acceptable? :sarcastic

 

[I-Ching]

Says who?

Edit: did the same person who told you this also claim that he himself was part of a line of "bonafide" succession? If so, I'd say that he had a bit of a conflict of interest.

Says Krishna and the Vedas.

 

[PolyHedral]

Says Krishna and the Vedas.

And why do you believe them? Because they say they came from God? How does that tell you anything?

 

[idea]

This is just silly. For example, the laws of thermodynamics were based entirely upon observation.
To call this "faith" is to grossly misuse the word.

Our observation is limited (watch the lecture)
thermo is based upon axioms as everything else is. The laws of thermo are not set in stone... the laws change based on scaling effects (micro vs macroscopic views)

take emergence:
Emergence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
"Although strong emergence is logically possible, it is uncomfortably like magic. How does an irreducible but supervenient downward causal power arise, since by definition it cannot be due to the aggregation of the micro-level potentialities? Such causal powers would be quite unlike anything within our scientific ken. This not only indicates how they will discomfort reasonable forms of materialism. Their mysteriousness will only heighten the traditional worry that emergence entails illegitimately getting something from nothing."(Bedau 1997)

getting something from nothing goes against the laws of thermo - thermo is not proven, is only a postulate that sort of works some of the time for some length scales.

 

[I-Ching]

It quite quantifiably doesn't offer a superior alternative; it did not exterminate smallpox. That act alone saved hundreds of millions of lives.

Re: ancient society: in what way is a >60% infant mortality rate acceptable? :sarcastic

Since Ayurveda comes from God and he designed the body, it's likely to be more effective.

 

[PolyHedral]

Since Ayurveda comes from God and he designed the body, it's likely to be more effective.

The reality is that it isn't.

 

[I-Ching]

And why do you believe them? Because they say they came from God? How does that tell you anything?

You first have to accept the axiom that God exists then the Truth will find you.

 

[I-Ching]

The reality is that it isn't.

If you accept the axiom that God exists then it is likely that he will give us knowledge of how to live in this world. That knowledge would be superior to whatever knowledge we could concoct with our senses.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Says Krishna and the Vedas.

"Says Krishna"... like Krishna told you personally?

And the Vedas... you mean the scriptures handed down and maintained by the people who say that the Vedas give them authority? Again, there's a bit of a conflict of interest there.

If an ancient false guru had changed the Vedas to say that he and his lineage now had succession instead of the true lineage, how would you ever know?

 

[Father Heathen]

 

[idea]

If you accept the axiom that God exists then it is likely that he will give us knowledge of how to live in this world. That knowledge would be superior to whatever knowledge we could concoct with our senses.

We can also test and experiment on the axioms of God - the same as we can experiment on anything else.

God suggests that:
don't lie
don't be jealous
don't kill one another
be charitable
pray / read scriptures / go to church
etc. etc. etc. ...

only those who actually do the experiments can know the results of them... most people fail to do the experiment...

 

[I-Ching]

"Says Krishna"... like Krishna told you personally?

And the Vedas... you mean the scriptures handed down and maintained by the people who say that the Vedas give them authority? Again, there's a bit of a conflict of interest there.

If an ancient false guru had changed the Vedas to say that he and his lineage now had succession instead of the true lineage, how would you ever know?

Yes this is true the knowledge does become corrupted over time:

"This supreme science was thus received through the chain of disciplic succession, and the saintly kings understood it in that way. But in course of time the succession was broken, and therefore the science as it is appears to be lost." Bg 4.2

But ...

"Whenever and wherever there is a decline in religious practice, O descendant of Bharata, and a predominant rise of irreligion — at that time I descend Myself.

To deliver the pious and to annihilate the miscreants, as well as to reestablish the principles of religion, I Myself appear, millennium after millennium." Bg 4.7-8

Krishna comes this world occasionally to reestablish it.