You can't have perfect knowledge through science

[Father Heathen]

He doesn't need anyone, but some souls desire to serve Him in that way.

Oh, cool.

I now declare myself a holy man and hence forward will presume to speak on god's behalf.

 

[I-Ching]

So? How would that violate free will?

"Easy choice" does not imply "no choice".

This material world is a place devoid of God by definition. It is opposed to the Spiritual World where God is always there. God is the ultimate person He is incredibly beautiful and simply be seeing Him you would fall in Love with Him. Your heart would melt and all the karma that is covering the soul would disappear. When God comes to this world it becomes like the Spiritual World. He does this occasionally out of his causeless mercy but if he did it all the time, he would be denying the soul their choice between the material and spiritual world since they would become the same.

That's kinda conflicted: it would be hard - impossible, even - to simultaneously forget about something AND try to imitate it.

If the servant wants to imitate the master, then he simply denies the masters existence.

Merely letting a person know that the potential object of their love simply exists is not "forcing love".

If God was on the planet you would not simply know he exists you would be attracted to His infinitely Lovable personality. Just like if an incredibly beautiful women is always in your presence your free will becomes compromised.

 

[I-Ching]

Oh, cool.

I now declare myself a holy man and hence forward will presume to speak on god's behalf.

There is a process. Disciplic succession. You would have to take shelter of an already qualified Guru and take instruction from Him and in time you could become qualified to become a Guru.
evam parampara praptam "This supreme science was thus received through the chain of disciplic succession" Bhagavad-Gita 4.2

 

[Madhuri]

"They say that this world is unreal, with no foundation, no God in control. They say it is produced of sex desire and has no cause other than lust. Following such conclusions, the demoniac, who are lost to themselves and who have no intelligence, engage in unbeneficial, horrible works meant to destroy the world." Bg 16.8-9 To me this verse refers to science and technology. Like I said you can use it to serve Krishna but you have to understand what you are using.

How has science and technology benefited human society spiritually? If we could go back to living a in simple agrarian God-conscious society I think we would be a lot happier spiritually and materially.

It is not talking about science, it is talking about certain types of people. And 'demoniac' is a very harsh linguistic interpretation favoured by the Gaudiya Vaishnavas.

How has science and technology benefited mankind? Well ask yourself that living where you do, if it were not for planes and ships, for publishing technology, tape recording etc. would you have had access to devotional teachings? Would Prabhupada been able to take his knowledge to the world?

I ask, since science is part of our world, how is it not part of God's plan?

 

[Father Heathen]

There is a process. Disciplic succession. You would have to take shelter of an already qualified Guru and take instruction from Him and in time you could become qualified to become a Guru.
evam parampara praptam "This supreme science was thus received through the chain of disciplic succession" Bhagavad-Gita 4.2

But God has already appointed me. He speaks to me, and says that the gurus you speak of are false teachers. God also says that the texts you quote were written by evil men intending to cloud the minds of people with false teachings and lead them astray from god. Thus why he chose me to clarify his word and carry out his will.

 

[I-Ching]

It is not talking about science, it is talking about certain types of people. And 'demoniac' is a very harsh linguistic interpretation favoured by the Gaudiya Vaishnavas.

It's talking about ugra-karma unbeneficial horrible work meant to destroy the world. What is destroying our world? Technology. Pollution, carbon emmisions, a vast array of killing devices. Where does technology come from? Science.

How has science and technology benefited mankind? Well ask yourself that living where you do, if it were not for planes and ships, for publishing technology, tape recording etc. would you have had access to devotional teachings? Would Prabhupada been able to take his knowledge to the world?

Yes Prabhupada used technology to convey his message and what was his message "Simple Living and Higher Thinking". He was using a thorn to take out a thorn.

I ask, since science is part of our world, how is it not part of God's plan?

Yes Kali-Yuga, the iron age of machines, is part of God's plan and so is the Golden age, the age of simple living and higher thinking. Not high living and simple thinking.

 

[chinu]

But God has already appointed me. He speaks to me, and says that the gurus you speak of are false teachers. God also says that the texts you quote were written by evil men intending to cloud the minds of people with false teachings and lead them astray from god. Thus why he chose me to clarify his word and carry out his will.

Congrats..
_/\_
Chinu

 

[Madhuri]

So? How would that violate free will?

"Easy choice" does not imply "no choice".


That's kinda conflicted: it would be hard - impossible, even - to simultaneously forget about something AND try to imitate it.


Merely letting a person know that the potential object of their love simply exists is not "forcing love".

I would like to attempt to answer this according to the philosophy.

The Lord Vishnu/Krishna is love itself. Those whole experience Him forget even themselves and are overwhelmed with love and joy. It is impossible to be in the Lord's presence without losing ourselves.

The individual souls (us) represent God's marginal potency- this means that we are conflicted between seeking the absolute and indulging in material desires. Those material desires are what attracted us to the material universe in the first place. Until we get sick of it and decide we want only to realise the absolute, we remain trapped here in a cycle of birth and death. Part of our material desires include exercising power and control- when a person says that we try to imitate God, it means only that we attempt to become powerful, to take control of others, to replicate life etc.

According to this religious philosophy, truth can be realised. It is not a religion of faith in the same way that some other religions are. The goal of yoga is to actually come to realise and have full understanding of truth. Yogic practices are taught to help us come to realisation. For the individual who is sick of this world and its ups and downs, who is not satisfied that this reality is the only reality, he/she renounces attachments to worldly things and dedicates his/her life to Yoga.

If this religion is true, then practicing its recommended methods is the only way to come to realise it.

God appears on the planets where intelligent being exist to provide the guidance and inspiration for those who seek the absolute. We never run out of chances to take that path- we just keep going life after life until we can no longer tolerate the suffering. In the meantime, God does not wish to force himself upon us. Salvation is only necessary if we decide we want it.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

But God has already appointed me. He speaks to me, and says that the gurus you speak of are false teachers. God also says that the texts you quote were written by evil men intending to cloud the minds of people with false teachings and lead them astray from god. Thus why he chose me to clarify his word and carry out his will.

And I confirm that what Father Heathen says is true.

Since the two of us agree, it must be correct... right?

 

[Father Heathen]

Congrats..
_/\_
Chinu

Do you want to be my disciple?

 

[I-Ching]

But God has already appointed me. He speaks to me, and says that the gurus you speak of are false teachers. God also says that the texts you quote were written by evil men intending to cloud the minds of people with false teachings and lead them astray from god. Thus why he chose me to clarify his word and carry out his will.

Well great. If you can find a Guru that comes in disciplic succession and a scripture that also comes in the same vein then I will accept your statement.

 

[Madhuri]

Yes Kali-Yuga, the iron age of machines, is part of God's plan and so is the Golden age, the age of simple living and higher thinking. Not high living and simple thinking.

Then there is nothing to complain about because everything is under God's control. There is no point in criticising others, because they are but doing God's work. There is no point in being disappointed with the state of the world, because it is as it is designed to be.

 

[PolyHedral]

What is destroying our world? Technology. Pollution, carbon emmisions, a vast array of killing devices. Where does technology come from? Science.

Technology has also saved billions.

 

[I-Ching]

And I confirm that what Father Heathen says is true.

Since the two of us agree, it must be correct... right?

No. You nor him have taken shelter of a bonafida Guru, coming in disciplic succession.

 

[Father Heathen]

Well great. If you can find a Guru that comes in disciplic succession and a scripture that also comes in the same vein then I will accept your statement.

God tells me no such thing is necessary. God says your gurus are false teachers and evil men who wish to deceive people and lead their souls into the clutches of devils. You're not calling god a liar, are you? Why do you serve those who serve devils? Without faith your heart grows wicked.

 

[I-Ching]

Then there is nothing to complain about because everything is under God's control. There is no point in criticising others, because they are but doing God's work. There is no point in being disappointed with the state of the world, because it is as it is designed to be.

We are Krishna's instruments to bring about that age. Arjuna didn't win the battle by just sitting on his chariot and accepting everything. Our actions are also part of God's Will and a lack of action will incur karma.

 

[Revoltingest]

Father Heathen is a bonafide guru....that's why he's called "Father".
For your credibility to equal his, it will take more than a name which rhymes with "preaching".

 

[Father Heathen]

No. You nor him have taken shelter of a bonafida Guru, coming in disciplic succession.

It is the bonafida Guru who must renounce his falsehoods and take shelter in us, for were are the first in the true line of disciplic succession.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Well great. If you can find a Guru that comes in disciplic succession

That would be me.

I am a student of Kay sensei, student of Ohmi sensei, student of Haruna sensei, student of Yamashibu sensei, student of Yamamoto sensei, student of Oe Masamachi Roshu, 17th head of Muso Jikiden Eishin Ryu, founded by Hayashizake Jinsuke Minamoto Shigenobu.

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and a scripture that also comes in the same vein then I will accept your statement.

Here you go:

Thus sayeth the Lord: Father Heathen is always right.

So... it seems that all the boxes have been checked.

 

[I-Ching]

Technology has also saved billions.

I assume that you are referring to allopathy, but Ayurveda offers a superior alternative. Ancient society has survived for centuries without allopathy.