You don't show respect for my religion!

[lunakilo]

Well, if you think about it, everybody can make up their own interpretation of what a certain thing means and get offended as much as they like, or they can actually learn why its done, and react based on that. Which is better?

Yes, I agree. That is what I was trying to say with my comment "that people have a tendency to think that everybody else think the same way they do. But that is not how the world works."

Once again you certainly can keep on taking things based on what they seem to you, or you can actually know what they are instead. Why take things as what they seem and not what they actually are?

I'm pretty sure you're not one of the people who think that their cultural norms have some special value to it so that other people have to follow it.

She doesn't have to conform to the culture she lives in. A little is needed though no doubt, but this isn't necessarily one of those needed things.

No, and we have been over this before, I was just repeeting the points to answer Penumbra's question about what offended me.

You're not accepting her culture over yours. You're not asked to not shake men's hands as well.

Add to this, like i mentioned this is not just a cultural thing, and possibly not at all. I said its a religious thing from her point view, its supposed to be part of her modesty.

You disagree with that idea, so do i, but i don't get offended simply when people do things i disagree with. Or things i'm not used to.

Just because something is tradition doesn't necessarily mean that it is right.

It is not necessarily right to shake hands just because that is your tradition, and it is not necessarily right not to shake hands if that is your tradition. Maybe there is nothing fundamentally wrong with either practice, but that doesn' mean that everybody is happy.

It is a bit like the toilet-seat-problem.

If you are the only woman in you household then the touilet seat will ALWAYS be up. It is annoying, but that is just how it is.

If you are the only man in the household, then all the women will keep telling you how annoying it is when you leave the toiletseat up. You can claim that there is no right position embedded in the toilet seat and continue to leave it up. But you know that all the women in the house finde this very annoying, so if you do it anyway you are very inconsiderate.

 

[Badran]

Yes, I agree. That is what I was trying to say with my comment "that people have a tendency to think that everybody else think the same way they do. But that is not how the world works."

No, and we have been over this before, I was just repeeting the points to answer Penumbra's question about what offended me.

It seemed like you still were offended while making those points. Do you mean that you are offended, but you understand that you shouldn't be, or that you were offended but are not now?

Just because something is tradition doesn't necessarily mean that it is right.

It is not necessarily right to shake hands just because that is your tradition, and it is not necessarily right not to shake hands if that is your tradition.

Yep, i agree.

It is a bit like the toilet-seat-problem.

If you are the only woman in you household then the touilet seat will ALWAYS be up. It is annoying, but that is just how it is.

If you are the only man in the household, then all the women will keep telling you how annoying it is when you leave the toiletseat up. You can claim that there is no right position embedded in the toilet seat and continue to leave it up. But you know that all the women in the house finde this very annoying, so if you do it anyway you are very inconsiderate.

I'm confused. Do you view the woman as inconsiderate or not? The woman of the hand shaking story?

The example you gave here implies that you still do, and not just how you feel but how you think.

So just in case, this example is different. The man doesn't have to do it with the seat down, but at the same time, he can easily put it down after he's done. In other words, there's some sort of middle ground.

However, in the woman's case, she doesn't shake hands with men. So, what is she supposed to do? Forget about her religion and shake it anyway? Or do the greeting just in a different way and try to make things as easy as possible for the other person?

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Whatever differences exist between two people, people who show, and are deserving of, respect, always meet the other person half way. People who aren't willing to do this have no right to complain when others don't accomodate their views.

Respect can't be demanded - it has to be earned. And the most straightforward way to do this is to focus on how you can show respect to others, not the other way around.

 

[lunakilo]

Whatever differences exist between two people, people who show, and are deserving of, respect, always meet the other person half way. People who aren't willing to do this have no right to complain when others don't accomodate their views.

How does that apply in this case? Should the bump albows or what?

I'm confused. Do you view the woman as inconsiderate or not? The woman of the hand shaking story?

The example you gave here implies that you still do, and not just how you feel but how you think.

So just in case, this example is different. The man doesn't have to do it with the seat down, but at the same time, he can easily put it down after he's done. In other words, there's some sort of middle ground.

However, in the woman's case, she doesn't shake hands with men. So, what is she supposed to do? Forget about her religion and shake it anyway? Or do the greeting just in a different way and try to make things as easy as possible for the other person?

I am confused to, I don't really know what I think.

On one hand I think the non-hand-shaking-woman is inconsiderate when she insists on a practice she knows will upset people. That it is a religious practice doesn't doesn't save her in my oppinion you can't just play the "it's my religion"-card and then do as you please.

On the other hand you don't have a right to claim that the practices of the majority are the right practices just because they are in the majority and have allways done things a certain way. People should be more flexible than that.

I basically think this is just one of those situations where someone does something completely unexpected and you just have no clue how to react.

I guess this is one of those times where :foot: should be used.

Respect can't be demanded - it has to be earned. And the most straightforward way to do this is to focus on how you can show respect to others, not the other way around.

Wise words.
Did you train as a sage?

 

[waitasec]

i think a smile and a nod is a good enough greeting gesture...
unless a smile and a nod is considered rude

 

[Badran]

I am confused to, I don't really know what I think.

If i may suggest, the only reason you're confused in my opinion is due to this:

On one hand I think the non-hand-shaking-woman is inconsiderate when she insists on a practice she knows will upset people. That it is a religious practice doesn't doesn't save her in my oppinion you can't just play the "it's my religion"-card and then do as you please.

Two problems:

1) The fact that something upsets people on its own even if you're aware from the beginning doesn't mean you should not do whatever that thing is, and you already agree to that in many instances.

2) Nobody is playing "its my religion card", it is her religious view.

You're already assuming bad intention.

 

[crocusj]

Whatever differences exist between two people, people who show, and are deserving of, respect, always meet the other person half way. People who aren't willing to do this have no right to complain when others don't accomodate their views.

Respect can't be demanded - it has to be earned. And the most straightforward way to do this is to focus on how you can show respect to others, not the other way around.

Does this not mean that there would not be still one offering a hand and the other putting theirs over their heart?

 

[beenie]

If i may suggest, the only reason you're confused in my opinion is due to this:

Two problems:

1) The fact that something upsets people on its own even if you're aware from the beginning doesn't mean you should not do whatever that thing is, and you already agree to that in many instances.

2) Nobody is playing "its my religion card", it is her religious view.

You're already assuming bad intention.

Totally agree.

Something tells me that if the refusal to shake hands was deemed "cultural" rather than "religious" it would be better tolerated.

 

[lunakilo]

If i may suggest, the only reason you're confused in my opinion is due to this:



Two problems:

1) The fact that something upsets people on its own even if you're aware from the beginning doesn't mean you should not do whatever that thing is, and you already agree to that in many instances.

Yes I do agree to that

2) Nobody is playing "its my religion card", it is her religious view.

Yes, but that doesn't make her right.

You're already assuming bad intention.

Yes I am. That is because if I did what she did, I would have bad intentions.
But I also said earlier on that people have a tendency to think that everybody else think the same way they do, and I guess I am no exception to that rule.

Ok, ok. You win.
I should not have been offended by her actions.

 

[jojo50]

"You don't show respect for my religion!"
What are you supposed to do when someone says that to you? So what I am trying to understand is: (5) Am I wrong to not respect other peoples religions?

funny how many focus on their religion,more so than Jesus teachings. many say they worship and follow him,but their actions shows differently. my question is,(though i know the answer), have anyone ever read where Jesus said...respect my religion? of course not,he never had a "religion" he was a servant of the Most High God of Israel,his Father,Jehovah.

what exactly does one mean when they say..."respect my religion" Jesus had NO respect for anyone who's teachings was different than his,which was the TRUTH. if he did that, he would basically be saying, though you're not teaching the truth,i RESPECT what you're learning,teaching,etc. even though it's NOT what my Father wants one to believe.

Jesus would NOT say what others wanted him to say,just to make them feel good about their actions. Jesus was TOTALLY about pleasing his Father,NOT man.(John 5:30 -I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me).

also ,Jesus came down so hard on false ministers,it wasn't even funny!,he had No respect for their teachings or beliefs...
(1).John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him...

(2).Matt.6:5- And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

(3).Mark 7:6,7 -He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me. Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Notice some of the many times Jesus called the false ministers ..."hypocrites"...
(1).Matt.23:13-But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.(many ministers isn't teaching the truth,they're going down.sadly the ones who follows them are also going down).

matt.23:23 -32,verse 33: Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell? so if showing repect means me saying it's ok to believe a lie,then i won't! because it would be saying, it doesn't matter to Jesus and his Father that many teachings is part wrong, it does matter!

many believe just as long as the teachings are Jesus is our savior,we all will make it to Heaven. i can't and won't respect that teaching,Jesus wouldn't have. true Jesus IS our savior, the false teaching though..."all good goes to Heaven". that's NOT a teaching Jesus and his Father Jehovah wants anyone to "respect" because it isn't his word. peace

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

funny how many focus on their religion,more so than Jesus teachings. many say they worship and follow him,but their actions shows differently. my question is,(though i know the answer), have anyone ever read where Jesus said...respect my religion? of course not,he never had a "religion" he was a servant of the Most High God of Israel,his Father,Jehovah.

Just so you're aware: what you call "Jesus' teachings", everyone else calls "your religion".

Do you want people to respect what you consider to be Jesus' teachings? If you do, then you're asking for people to respect your religion.

You might consider your own religion to be special and unique, but in that regard, you're not special or unique at all. Most people consider their religion to be "more true" or better in some way than all the others.

 

[Katzpur]

But someone elses religion is not your religion. It is different from your religion, and so must be wrong in some sense. If it was not wrong it would be your religion, right?

So how do you show respect for something you believe to be wrong?

I don't think it's a matter of showing respect for religions or for beliefs but for the people who belong to those religions and adhere to the beliefs they teach. To me, that's as simple as not ridiculing them or misrepresenting what they teach. I don't understand what's so difficult about that concept.

 

[Revoltingest]

Evidently, one need not be religious to be irrational and believe dumb things.

Non-believers can be irrational? Now that you mention it, some of us are bonkers, albeit in other areas.
I think a distinction should be made. "Respect" is sometimes confused with "civility". I usually try to be civil towards those whose religions
I don't respect. And I appreciate it when believers who think I'm Satan's minion show me civility too. It's a good reciprocal relationship.

 

[Scots99]

I must say I didn't read every post on this thread, but after reading the first page I am a little shocked. Of course you can respect a religion you believe to be wrong.

First, I don't believe that any religion has no faults; because lets face it our knowledge of God is only based off what we hear and see. God is more intricate than anyone could every imagine. I think quite frankly it is ignorant to think you have a religion that is not wrong in either way. With the numerous religions out there your telling me that one out of all of those has it right, and that's it. Come on people lets use some common sense.

Secondly, where did the definition of respect say you have to think something is right to do so. If you look at definitions it never says that it must be right for you to respect. I don't agree or think everything our president does is right, but I still respect the guy. I also respect the fact that he has certain political beliefs that I don't and that is fine. It is the same with religion in my opinion. You just have to respect the fact that it means something spiritually to that person, whether you believe it or not. Respect the idea of someone actually looking for spiritual fulfillment. You respect the religion not because it's right, but because it is a belief that provides something important to a human being; which in my mind is important to everyone. No one has it all right so why in the world would you base the respect of religion off that.

 

[FlyingTeaPot]

I must say I didn't read every post on this thread, but after reading the first page I am a little shocked. Of course you can respect a religion you believe to be wrong.

First, I don't believe that any religion has no faults; because lets face it our knowledge of God is only based off what we hear and see. God is more intricate than anyone could every imagine. I think quite frankly it is ignorant to think you have a religion that is not wrong in either way. With the numerous religions out there your telling me that one out of all of those has it right, and that's it. Come on people lets use some common sense.

Secondly, where did the definition of respect say you have to think something is right to do so. If you look at definitions it never says that it must be right for you to respect. I don't agree or think everything our president does is right, but I still respect the guy. I also respect the fact that he has certain political beliefs that I don't and that is fine. It is the same with religion in my opinion. You just have to respect the fact that it means something spiritually to that person, whether you believe it or not. Respect the idea of someone actually looking for spiritual fulfillment. You respect the religion not because it's right, but because it is a belief that provides something important to a human being; which in my mind is important to everyone. No one has it all right so why in the world would you base the respect of religion off that.

You completely missed the point of what the OP meant when she said respect for a religion.

 

[Where Is God]

Would it be disrespectful to tell people to "Have a secular day"?

It doesn't seem like theists believe that telling me "Have a blessed day" seems disrepectful to them.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Just a thought:

It seems to me that much of the discussion from the theists of disrespectful behaviour has focused on rather extreme forms of behaviour. To look at this from another perspective, what is the least offensive behaviour that you would consider "disrespectful"?

IOW, what's the standard of behaviour you expect (or wish for) from the non-religious or people of other religions? If I wanted to avoid making you feel like I was disrespecting your religion, what would I have to do?

 

[Scots99]

You completely missed the point of what the OP meant when she said respect for a religion.

I guess that depends on your definition of respect. I read the Original Post and it clearly is a person asking for advice...I read the first page and saw that people believed it was okay to not respect a persons religion if it is wrong. It is ignorant for anyone to believe they have to full truth to essentially the meaning of life. My point was that it isn't just good enough to respect the person who has the free will to choose their beliefs. No, I believe it is important to respect the religion itself and what it means to that person. I have my own beliefs about religion in general, but I still respect religion and what it means to people. Even if the religion is something totally out of this world and illogical there still has to be an amount of respect put on what it means to the people who follow it.

 

[Katzpur]

Non-believers can be irrational? Now that you mention it, some of us are bonkers, albeit in other areas.
I think a distinction should be made. "Respect" is sometimes confused with "civility". I usually try to be civil towards those whose religions
I don't respect. And I appreciate it when believers who think I'm Satan's minion show me civility too. It's a good reciprocal relationship.

Works for me.

 

[FlyingTeaPot]

I guess that depends on your definition of respect. I read the Original Post and it clearly is a person asking for advice...I read the first page and saw that people believed it was okay to not respect a persons religion if it is wrong. It is ignorant for anyone to believe they have to full truth to essentially the meaning of life. My point was that it isn't just good enough to respect the person who has the free will to choose their beliefs. No, I believe it is important to respect the religion itself and what it means to that person. I have my own beliefs about religion in general, but I still respect religion and what it means to people. Even if the religion is something totally out of this world and illogical there still has to be an amount of respect put on what it means to the people who follow it.

So we must show equal respect to the belief that there are fairies and santa?