Your best argument that G-d does not exist

[Gyrannon]

No one can prove or disprove the existence of any God.
For all you know, every God from every religion is the same being - they are all different? A being who can do absolutely anything, even for believers it just sounds goofy to say "those ones were made up" cause then I wonder, "Were you at the God Designers' Meeting?" seriously how can you know?

I don't care if you're a firm disbeliever of all deities or a firm believer of any particular deity, one side of you is based on GUESSING and the other is based on what other humans told you. No one has actually met their Almighty God (any religion) and no mortal, even a faithful believer can't disprove the existence of any Gods.

Put it simply: Beyond our understanding, they exist outside the laws that govern our universe, and if that is true, no one can prove/disprove them unless they allow it.

Also, if Lies exist, and this Creator God is the creator of absolutely everything, then he too is capable of lying.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Saint Dawkins invented a God detector and the reading is unambiguous:

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

Sometimes feeling IS knowing as if I feel something be it physical temperature or metaphysical energy I have no doubt it exists. I feel that God if far more than a gender. God is everyone and everting As abstract as that

God (sentient spirit being or unconscious bond of all things) is everything. God is Truth, and the aspects of Truth are knowledge (objective, no feelings), justice, love, and beauty (subjective, only feelings). Ergo, we do need love, but that's not all we need.

No one can prove or disprove the existence of any God.
For all you know, every God from every religion is the same being - they are all different? A being who can do absolutely anything, even for believers it just sounds goofy to say "those ones were made up" cause then I wonder, "Were you at the God Designers' Meeting?" seriously how can you know?

I don't care if you're a firm disbeliever of all deities or a firm believer of any particular deity, one side of you is based on GUESSING and the other is based on what other humans told you. No one has actually met their Almighty God (any religion) and no mortal, even a faithful believer can't disprove the existence of any Gods.

Put it simply: Beyond our understanding, they exist outside the laws that govern our universe, and if that is true, no one can prove/disprove them unless they allow it.

We exist in a natural, rational universe. Any supernatural being that revealed Itself or otherwise violated natural law, would necessarily undermine this rational universe and make a lie of the whole thing. But there it is, as rational as ever for 13 billion years in all directions. But beyond that, why would a God create this rational universe in the first place? I have a good idea what it is. If God's motives are rational, they are rationally deductible. And if God were irrational, that would be apparent in the operation of the universe, and amoebas, much less us, wouldn't have evolved at all.

Also, if Lies exist, and this Creator God is the creator of absolutely everything, then he too is capable of lying.

Yes, God is capable of lying, but being the embodiment of Truth, to do so would be to deny at least a part of Itself. Fully self-aware sentient beings are the only creatures who are capable of and routinely lie. The rest of the universe is innocent, being without the ability to know evil, and thus without the ability to choose to do evil.

 

[Gyrannon]

We exist in a natural, rational universe. Any supernatural being that revealed Itself or otherwise violated natural law, would necessarily undermine this rational universe and make a lie of the whole thing. But there it is, as rational as ever for 13 billion years in all directions. But beyond that, why would a God create this rational universe in the first place? I have a good idea what it is. If God's motives are rational, they are rationally deductible. And if God were irrational, that would be apparent in the operation of the universe, and amoebas, much less us, wouldn't have evolved at all.

My opinion on that, if God is the creator of all, then him leaving everything to chance (Evolution) without any interference would honestly not be beyond him.
And the lying bit, I'm merely pointing out the fact that if he indeed created everything, then everything that is good & everything that is evil also came from him. It personally makes no sense for a being to be able to do absolutely anything, be the cause of everything, but somehow be incapable of stopping evil from creating itself (somehow).

Say I'm God. I'm completely against Rape. Why would I let something like that exist if I'm the definition of "Pure Good"? Just makes no sense.

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

My opinion on that, if God is the creator of all, then him leaving everything to chance (Evolution) without any interference would honestly not be beyond him.
And the lying bit, I'm merely pointing out the fact that if he indeed created everything, then everything that is good & everything that is evil also came from him. It personally makes no sense for a being to be able to do absolutely anything, be the cause of everything, but somehow be incapable of stopping evil from creating itself (somehow).

Say I'm God. I'm completely against Rape. Why would I let something like that exist if I'm the definition of "Pure Good"? Just makes no sense.

God, if It exists, essentially created the universe to evolve us with moral free will, and we can only be truly free if we're not subject to any divine influence in the exercise of that will if is to be indeed, free. God doesn't create evil, we do. And every time God doesn't intervene to stop evil is a monument to God's commitment to our free will--which is for our benefit as well as God's. Evolving creatures with free will is the sole purpose of the universe. An omnipotent God could do or create anything else instantly.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

And every time God doesn't intervene to stop evil is a monument to God's commitment to our free will--which is for our benefit as well as God's.

So how did the Holocaust benefit humanity or God?

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Say I'm God. I'm completely against Rape. Why would I let something like that exist if I'm the definition of "Pure Good"? Just makes no sense.

I agree, it simply doesn't make sense when God could have designed humans to be much nicer and incapable of things like rape and murder. God builds in the capacity for nastiness, and then tells us that nasty things are wrong. Perverse. It makes God sound like a cruel scientist watching lab-rats fight.

 

[Gyrannon]

So how did the Holocaust benefit humanity or God?

Looking at it from a seriously messed up point of view:
Humanity - Population Control.
God - Early arrivals.

 

[leibowde84]

The topic of the thread is:

"Your best argument that G-d does not exist"

So please inform us the best argument that "G-d does not exist".
If none could give the best positive argument, then one could give the second (best) argument. Please

Regards

I think it is only fair that you specify which God you are referring to. Is it the God of Abraham?

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Looking at it from a seriously messed up point of view:
Humanity - Population Control.
God - Early arrivals.

It seems that theology often does involve a seriously messed up view.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Sometimes feeling IS knowing as if I feel something be it physical temperature or metaphysical energy I have no doubt it exists. I feel that God if far more than a gender. God is everyone and everting As abstract as that

I FEEL that it's ridiculous to take feelings as proof, so where does this leave us? If I accept your position, I'll be compelled to reject your position.

 

[interminable]

My opinion on that, if God is the creator of all, then him leaving everything to chance (Evolution) without any interference would honestly not be beyond him.
And the lying bit, I'm merely pointing out the fact that if he indeed created everything, then everything that is good & everything that is evil also came from him. It personally makes no sense for a being to be able to do absolutely anything, be the cause of everything, but somehow be incapable of stopping evil from creating itself (somehow).

Say I'm God. I'm completely against Rape. Why would I let something like that exist if I'm the definition of "Pure Good"? Just makes no sense.

So how did the Holocaust benefit humanity or God?

He is a creator of everything but since we have the ability to choose bad or good our activities can be ascribed to god indirectly

Besides if God wants to stop something who can prevent him???

Have u ever thought about hell and heaven

Without free will creating heaven and hell is senseless that's why God tests us by our actions and will judge us one day


There is no murder and rape or even any problems just in heaven

This carnal world is meant to be involved with difficulty and hardship

 

[paarsurrey]

I think it is only fair that you specify which God you are referring to. Is it the God of Abraham?

G-d as mentioned in the following verses:

[1:1] In the name of Allah, the Gracious, the Merciful.
[1:2] All praise belongs to Allah, Lord of all the worlds,
[1:3] The Gracious, the Merciful,
[1:4] Master of the Day of Judgment.
[1:5] Thee alone do we worship and Thee alone do we implore for help.
[1:6] Guide us in the right path —
[1:7] The path of those on whom Thou hast bestowed Thy blessings, those who have not incurred Thy displeasure, and those who have not gone astray.
https://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/showChapter.php?ch=1

Regards

 

[Segev Moran]

"As far as you know"? Aren't you arguing that we don't know anything about God? If this is true, aren't you just making up these claims about God?

Giraffes...
(Not joking... Go and learn about the anatomy of giraffe...)

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

So how did the Holocaust benefit humanity or God?

When you're ready not to play the Ijustdon'tgetit card, lemme know. I know you understand what I'm saying. Then again, mebbe not.

 

[Milton Platt]

The Atheists to give their proofs and evidences to convince the Theists

Regards

Precisely define what "god" is. Nobody has time to debunk tens of thousands of gods.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

When you're ready not to play the Ijustdon'tgetit card, lemme know. I know you understand what I'm saying. Then again, mebbe not.

No, I really don't get it. How DID the Holocaust benefit humans or God?

How did all the other genocides benefit humans or God? All the wars? Murder? The famines and other natural disasters? Cancer? Disease generally.

What kind of deranged evil scientist creator would set things up like this?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

God, if It exists, essentially created the universe to evolve us with moral free will, and we can only be truly free if we're not subject to any divine influence in the exercise of that will if is to be indeed, free.

Do you seriously believe that we're "truly free" right now?

Regardless of your position on free will versus determinism, it's obvious that we can only choose between the options that occur to us - which we don't control. When we choose between these options, we're guided in our choices by our desires - which we also don't control. Then, when we go to put our choice into action, we're constrained by physical limitations - which we also don't control.

So what exactly is "truly free" in all this?

 

[Kartari]

Hi Paineful,

Being created with an "innate wisdom" is the same thing as saying we'd been preprogrammed to be wise...

I think you clearly have it backwards, actually. In creating people with less wisdom, they are born with less freedom, not more. They are more prone to unconscious urges, compulsions, cravings. People with more wisdom though have more freedom, not less. They can see themselves and their desires more clearly, not less clearly, and can more easily remain detached, calm, aware, equanimous.

This is demonstrably the case. Simply consider any two people, one with significantly more wisdom than the other, and consider which one has more freedom in life. For instance, a fearful unconscious man who frets over everything in life and becomes his own worst enemy? Or does a calm and self-aware man whose detached mind can see the possibilities ahead with clarity and maximize on opportunities? How about an addict who is compelled to get high at all costs? Is she more free than another woman who has released her attachments to drugs and maintained superior mental and physical health, allowing her to succeed at a career of her own choosing instead of living in the streets?

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

No, I really don't get it. How DID the Holocaust benefit humans or God?

How did all the other genocides benefit humans or God? All the wars? Murder? The famines and other natural disasters? Cancer? Disease generally.

What kind of deranged evil scientist creator would set things up like this?

You continue to misunderstand the value and importance of exercising unfettered free will. That is the benefit, not the disasters. And yes, all that suffering would be pointless, as having free will would be, if (and I sense you're not gonna like this)....there is no hereafter. In the face of eternity, suffering would be forgotten in an instant. If there is no God and no afterlife, then yes, our lives are ultimately pointless and without purpose, and moral free will, whether we possess it or not, would be irrelevant.

Do you seriously believe that we're "truly free" right now?

We have moral free will, the ability to violate the equal rights of others which we all possess, or honor them. And those choices we make are ours, not pre-determined. No we don't have freedom from natural law if that's what you're asking. A coin flip may be pre-determined from the beginning of time, but our moral choices are not, and there's no reason to believe that they are.

Regardless of your position on free will versus determinism, it's obvious that we can only choose between the options that occur to us - which we don't control. When we choose between these options, we're guided in our choices by our desires - which we also don't control.

I can't really say whether our desires, at least all of them, are generated by our genes and environment or whatever. But pursuing those desires is a choice determined by will considering how it will affect you and others. The potential to consider the needs and rights of others is a capability possessed solely by sentient, fully self-aware beings. We will know when an artificial intelligence has become fully self-aware by its expression of wants and desires...and fears.

Then, when we go to put our choice into action, we're constrained by physical limitations - which we also don't control.

Of course.


So what exactly is "truly free" in all this?[/QUOTE]

Hi Paineful,

I think you clearly have it backwards, actually. In creating people with less wisdom, they are born with less freedom, not more. They are more prone to unconscious urges, compulsions, cravings. People with more wisdom though have more freedom, not less. They can see themselves and their desires more clearly, not less clearly, and can more easily remain detached, calm, aware, equanimous.

This is demonstrably the case. Simply consider any two people, one with significantly more wisdom than the other, and consider which one has more freedom in life. For instance, a fearful unconscious man who frets over everything in life and becomes his own worst enemy? Or does a calm and self-aware man whose detached mind can see the possibilities ahead with clarity and maximize on opportunities? How about an addict who is compelled to get high at all costs? Is she more free than another woman who has released her attachments to drugs and maintained superior mental and physical health, allowing her to succeed at a career of her own choosing instead of living in the streets?

I don't disagree with any of that. The issue is "innate" wisdom, that is wisdom that we are born with rather than earned. As I said, that would make us pre-programmed automatons, pursuing our internal "wisdom" by rote.