Your position about Islam

[Triumphant_Loser]

Another thing- no disrespect to him, but Mohammed is in a grave but Jesus is not.
Spot the difference?

No disrespect to you, but you do realize that Muslims believe that Muhammad isn't either, right? The Quran said he supposedly "ascended into heaven" instead of dying. Personally, I think they are both 6 feet in a grave.

 

[Sabour]

The argument that there are just too many Muslims around for the stereotype of the violent, terrorist-like Muslim to be accurate is sound, but also misleading IMO.




Why when muslims do no harm and are good we say it is due to the fact they are good and Islam has nothing to do with it but when terrorists claim they are muslims we say that Islam is to blame?


Why when non muslims are terrorists we don't blame their religion?

 

[Sabour]

What if? what if allah is 100% mythology, who is doing the reasoning?


You ?

What if it was not mythology? As I said, there is reasoning and reflecting on things as you go through the Quraan.

 

[MD]

The proof that Quraan is the actual word of God depends on the approach you you to do so.

You can do things logically as the Allah asks you too through out the Quraan.

You can also look up for errors.

You can look up the scientific miracles.

You can read about the life of our prophet. Again I would suggest to read a book called the "First Muslim".

You can also look up at the direct challenges given to the reader of the Quraan.

I have looked up. The embryology in the Quran which is supposed to be a miracle is very similar to the works of Galen, who lived a 1000 years prior to Mohammed. As such how can it be a miracle?

Logic dictates it was a book written by men. Mohammed had visions, but a lot of people have visions today and they are called schizophrenics who we give medications to. Some of them are highly gifted. Joan of Arc is one such example, where she felt that God was guiding her in victories. She actually listened to the voice of what she felt was God and lead her army to several victories.

I haven't really put a lot of time into it but it might be hard to find errors because the language is ambiguous.

Let me ask you, have you never asked yourself why in an infinite multiverse with infinite universes, galaxies and planets, God decided to pick a Saudi Arabian desert to send His message. Why not send it simultaneously? Why only 1400 years ago? Why not again?

Seems awfully made up to me.

By fundamentalist I mean Salafists and Takfiris who label anyone who is non muslim as kuffar and sub human. In contrast to a Sufi who sees God everywhere and in everyone, a pluralistic faith. Several Sufis have been killed in Pakistan over the years by Salafists.

 

[sun rise]

Another thing- no disrespect to him, but Mohammed is in a grave but Jesus is not.
Spot the difference?

That's of course a matter of belief not proof. There are legends in India that Jesus was buried in the Harvan area.

 

[Sabour]

I appreciate what you're trying to do, but the above is a non-answer to my questions. I'll summarize my previous post:

Islam makes the claim that it is the perfect, total solution for life. Quite a big claim. Show me evidence in the real world of many Muslims living this perfect life. Show me one Muslim majority country that demonstrates how great Islam is.

Unfortunately, not a single country has an Islam ruling in these days.

I would suggest that you would visit a mosque and look at individuals. Ask them if they are happy in their life. Ask them what is Islam is to them.

If you are pointing that a muslim's life should be perfect than this is not the case for God doesn't promise us a happy life and free from suffering. If that have been the case, than patience would no have been a key to heaven.

 

[sun rise]

Originally Posted by icehorse
I appreciate what you're trying to do, but the above is a non-answer to my questions. I'll summarize my previous post:

Islam makes the claim that it is the perfect, total solution for life. Quite a big claim. Show me evidence in the real world of many Muslims living this perfect life. Show me one Muslim majority country that demonstrates how great Islam is.

There is, of course, a big difference between ideal and real. In no nation at any time where many of any group have lived a PERFECT life. That's why every religion has doctrine about confessing mistakes, atoning for sins and so forth. Seriously, this shows that your argument is utterly weak because it's not based on an understanding of what a religion really is. Religions enjoin humility because humans are fallible and thus nations are made up of fallible people who make mistakes.

 

[Sabour]

Another thing- no disrespect to him, but Mohammed is in a grave but Jesus is not.
Spot the difference?

Do you mean that a dead person is a false prophet?

In that regards what do you say about Abraham peace be upon him? Is he a false prophet?

What about Moses peace be upon him? Bible says God tookhis body away. What that proves?

 

[Sabour]

It should be a woman's choice whether to pray separately from the men. Separate entrances (often in the back or side of the mosque) and sub-standard amenities (ie, dark, small, unkempt, crowded rooms for women, and open, light, airy, spacious rooms for the men)... that just ****** me off. Forced segregation is something men decided would make their lives easier, as in they can "concentrate" better. As if merely seeing a woman would destroy their prayer. Muslim women feed into the problem by "voluntarily" segregating and covering themselves up, etc., rather than forcing the men to grow up and be mature. Segregation at all religious events is inconvenient, as the women are often left with the children in cramped quarters while the men enjoy the event.

Segregation and covering up wouldn't be necessary if Muslim men acted like adults instead of a pack of dogs in heat.



Indeed. Although considered an "exception", hajj is not segregated at all.

Regarding the Qur'an only being pure in Arabic, let's think about this one. Islam is supposed to be a universal religion, for all. Why does everyone have to learn a complicated, complex language to get the message? Pick a language that's easily translated into many languages... after all, it's God talking.

That, along with the nearly forced Arab dress code (and many other customs), makes Islam foreign to most.

Well am not a scholar to give an opinion on that not with neither against.

But I just wanted to say that being dogs are not exclusive for some muslims

 

[icehorse]

Unfortunately, not a single country has an Islam ruling in these days.

Off the top of my head Iran and SA come to mind. How would you define those countries? In fact Iran officially calls itself the "Islamic Republic of Iran".

Are you saying that a country must be totally under Sharia to qualify?

 

[outhouse]

That's of course a matter of belief not proof. There are legends in India that Jesus was buried in the Harvan area.

And those legends are factually laughable


Your correct it is faith. alone.


Many credible respected scholars claim he was thrown into a pit eaten by wild dogs and birds.


I claim it is unknown what has happened to his corpse.

 

[Triumphant_Loser]

Off the top of my head Iran and SA come to mind. How would you define those countries? In fact Iran officially calls itself the "Islamic Republic of Iran".

Are you saying that a country must be totally under Sharia to qualify?

I'm guessing that he's using the "no True Scotsman fallacy." People if all religions seem to love it. If someone in their religion does something they don't like, they just say that they aren't actually part of the religion.

 

[Sabour]

No disrespect to you, but you do realize that Muslims believe that Muhammad isn't either, right? The Quran said he supposedly "ascended into heaven" instead of dying. Personally, I think they are both 6 feet in a grave.

That is Jesus peace be upon him who ascended not muhammad peace be upon him

 

[Philomath]

1- What is your position about Islam?

I don't believe in it

2- Do you have any questions that you would like having answers to?

None that I can think of at the moment

3- Why do you think Islam is wrong?

Because of the lack of historicity to support it

 

[Shiranui117]

1- What is your position about Islam?

Which Islam? The Islam that sanctions the likes of al-Qaeda and ISIS and allows for the slaughter of captives, the selling of captives into slavery, the killing of any non-Muslims for any attempts to share their faith with Muslims, the levying of harsh taxes against non-Muslims, the treatment of non-Muslims like second- and third-class citizens and depriving them of basic freedoms and human rights, the barbaric attacking of women as if they were worse than animals, the slow stripping away of the heritage and culture of non-Muslims within Muslim lands, the utilizing of 7th-century punishments and legal codes? I would utterly destroy this Islam from the face of the earth if I ever got the chance.

The Islam that preaches freedom of religion, social justice, love and compassion for others, non-aggression, defense of the poor and downtrodden against oppressors, showing mercy to those who surrender in battle and treating them well and with honor, protecting women if their husbands accuse them of rape without witnesses, paying money to free slaves and help those in debt, allowing non-Muslims to keep their churches, temples, statues, bells and processions and practice their religion without interference, giving charity to the poor, advancing the fields of medicine, science and mathematics, advocating reason and open dialogue with all? I would like this Islam a lot. It's a shame it seems much rarer these days, ever since the Crusades 800 years ago. If my spiritual path starts taking me away from Orthodox Christianity, I might even consider joining this Islam.

2- Do you have any questions that you would like having answers to?

I've been doing research, and it seems that different schools of Islam seem to have different interpretations regarding Allah's predestination and its relationship to our free will. Do certain schools of Islam believe that we can freely choose to follow Allah or not, without Him forcing us into one position or the other, or having preordained us to do so? Do certain schools teach that we are able to change our minds regarding whether to follow Allah at any time? Is it a universal opinion in Islam that Allah forces us to choose Him or not to choose Him, and that He creates us so that we are fated to commit either sins or righteous acts, and that we are powerless to change what Allah has fated us to do? I remember reading some verses from the Qur'an that very strongly imply this idea. Could you explain some of the more notable of these verses, and provide verses which suggest that we have free will, and that Allah does not force us into one action or another?

Are there still Mu'tazili Muslims today?

EDIT: One more question: Are there any verses in the Qur'an that state that Allah loves us?

3- Why do you think Islam is wrong?

Because the Qur'an is wrong. The Qur'an wrongly explains the Christian dogma of the Trinity, and it wrongly asserts that the Jews believe that Ezra is the Son of God (they don't).

Also, the fact that many Muslims attempt to prove Islam from the Christian Bible is laughable at best. Just stick with the Qur'an and call the Gospel corrupted in the places where it talks about Jesus being God.

 

[Triumphant_Loser]

That is Jesus peace be upon him who ascended not muhammad peace be upon him

Yes, but, if I'm not mistaken. Muhammad was believed to have been taken up into heaven as well. Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[LuisDantas]

The argument that there are just too many Muslims around for the stereotype of the violent, terrorist-like Muslim to be accurate is sound, but also misleading IMO.

Why when muslims do no harm and are good we say it is due to the fact they are good and Islam has nothing to do with it but when terrorists claim they are muslims we say that Islam is to blame?

I am not aware of anyone saying that in quite those words exactly.

If nothing else, Islam provides a reference of values for Muslims: humility, modesty, love for family, selflessness, hospitality, among others. I don't personally believe that is always a good thing, but there is no denying that for so many Muslims it is indeed very helpful in making them better people.

How they would turn out had they not found Islam is, of course, difficult to tell with much certainty. I personally believe that many people have a certain kind of personality that has natural affinity for Islamic and similar frameworks, in that they are naturally monotheistic, value structure and obedience, etc. Others are not really so compatible with Muslim expectations but do their best to conform out of a desire of social acceptance, with various degrees of success and tragedy.

I do say that Islam has an unfortunate tendency to take credit for quite a few merits that I don't recognize as being his to claim, as well as to hold some rather questionable values. For instance, it takes obedience and reverence to unadvisable extremes. And it totally exagerates the importance of belief in God - or more exactly, of claiming belief in God - much to its own detriment and to the unnecessary sorrow of many who could otherwise be its friends and allies if not outright non-theistic adherents.

Why when non muslims are terrorists we don't blame their religion?

It is an unfortunate fact that many terrorists claim to be practicing Muslims. It is irresponsible to simply shrug off such claims out of convenience.

We simply do not see that happen nearly as often with non-Muslims, and certainly not nearly as openly either. There are a couple of arguable exceptions. We may discuss them if you want to. Feel free to bring your own examples.

 

[Phil25]

1- What is your position about Islam?

2- Do you have any questions that you would like having answers to?

3- Why do you think Islam is wrong?

1 Very Negative. If I lived in 8th century Baghdad I might have had a positive impression but the current bombing of Churches from Nigeria to Pakistan and Persecution of Christians in Islamic world is not all making me happy.

2
a. Do you think Islam needs some reforms? Me personally believes that more or less I have to change with time. I wouldnt be advocating Stoning a or 7th Century Sharia law at all.
b. Do you think Islam is compatible with Secularism? Is Separation of Church and State Or more accurately Separation of Mosque and State possible in Islam?

3 I feel Islam is going backwards rather than forwards. I feel that Islam should accept that its not 7th century anymore and accept that it has faults and reform it rather than become more fundamentalist.

 

[outhouse]

If nothing else, Islam provides a reference of values for Muslims: humility, modesty, love for family, selflessness, hospitality, among others. I don't personally believe that is always a good thing, but there is no denying that for so many Muslims it is indeed very helpful in making them better people..

Which most muslims fall under. No one disputes this.

 

[Sabour]

I actually went into a period where I looked into Islam. It was more a curiosity to me than a viable religious path; however to immerse myself in my studies I tried living Muslim for a few days and it made me really appreciate the religion. There's a lot of discipline but there's also a lot of reward. It was kind of like a familiar mysticism -- if that makes sense. It was "exotic" without being too alien (most of the theological concepts of Islam aren't too far fetched to people living in a Christian society).

I think it is a very nice religion that has been tainted by extremists -- just as all religions are in one way or another.

What is Islam's opinion on nature and the divinity of nature (do animals have souls in the Muslim perspective? ect.)


I don't. It's just one of the many religious paths that people find comfort in.

I am happy to hear your first answer.

Regarding your question, we believe that every thing is created by Allah and yes animals have souls.

Sorry that was a short answer comparing it with your reply but I found nothing to add.