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Your position about Islam
- Thread starter Sabour
- Start date
Sabour
Well-Known Member
2- Can you show me in what aspect they are mistreated or being inferior?
3- What about the direct challenges and the invitation for logical thinking and reflecting on things?
The first thing I want to say about the subject is that the condition in the seventh century where very different especially for the Arabs.
At that time, people used to marry at a very young age.
For example, my mom married when she was 18. By the way, she married late, her generation use to marry at the age of 15. That was a normal thing to do in our century. In the seventeenth century, the minimum legal age to marry was 12, in England. Am I right ? That is what I read in an article.
Anyways, in the Arab times at the seventh century, marriages for the daughters were considered a way to make relations between families stronger, and that is for business reasons. They used to choose who will their daughters marry since she is first born. But that was not the case with the prophet.
Just let me say, that in Islam, cultural value are okay to follow if they don't stand against the message of Islam. The condition of Islam is that the girl has to reach the age of puberty.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gt7v...eature=related
Shuttlecraft
.Navigator
There's zilch to debate, Mohammed was just a man but Jesus was the Son of God, spot the difference?..
Sabour
Well-Known Member
QUOTE=sunrise123;396074
These are name of Allah or attributes, as you stated, that describe Him. They are not to be confused with saying that God can be a person which have needs or a spirit. For example, the All-knowledgeable is another name/attribute of Allah. All-Merciful is another one. I suggest you see the list of the 99 attributes.
About Shia Islam, I hear lots of things about them, but I haven't met any.
If these were true, I still don't believe that all people are alike and I don't generalize.
Well before I would discuss that I would like to know what is meant by true Christianity? If it means that if you would bring back the Injeel as it was revealed to Jesus peace be upon him and follow it, than I agree because in that way Injeel is also a revelation from God. If that isn't what true Christianity means than never mind.
The reason I asked about the Hudud punishments is that, for me and many others, they are the most problematical aspects of the Quran at least as literally read. There are those Appendix 37 of the Authorized English translation of Quran by Rashad Khalifa, Ph.D. | Submission.org - Your best source for Submission (Islam) who have a different view of them.
As a side point, we agree on ISIS.[/QUOTE]
I understand that, on a side not, the first condition for the hudud punishments is that there must be a caliphate.
Other thing we should note if that if Hudud where true, the purpose of them is to deter people from doing. For example, not one condition of stoning woman was reported at the times of the prophet except in the cases when the woman her self spoke it out and said that she did this and that.
K.S.A is a place where the thief would have his hand cut. It is the only place where you can leave your car with the keys in the street.
Once it was reported about the caliphate omar that he forgave those who were stealing because he figured out that their employee wasn't giving them enough money.
Other thing one should note that many people prefer to have their hand cut off rather than spending time in prison away from family.
These are name of Allah or attributes, as you stated, that describe Him. They are not to be confused with saying that God can be a person which have needs or a spirit. For example, the All-knowledgeable is another name/attribute of Allah. All-Merciful is another one. I suggest you see the list of the 99 attributes.
About Shia Islam, I hear lots of things about them, but I haven't met any.
If these were true, I still don't believe that all people are alike and I don't generalize.
Well before I would discuss that I would like to know what is meant by true Christianity? If it means that if you would bring back the Injeel as it was revealed to Jesus peace be upon him and follow it, than I agree because in that way Injeel is also a revelation from God. If that isn't what true Christianity means than never mind.
I dont think I have enough information and understanding of the concepts to answer that.
The reason I asked about the Hudud punishments is that, for me and many others, they are the most problematical aspects of the Quran at least as literally read. There are those Appendix 37 of the Authorized English translation of Quran by Rashad Khalifa, Ph.D. | Submission.org - Your best source for Submission (Islam) who have a different view of them.
As a side point, we agree on ISIS.[/QUOTE]
I understand that, on a side not, the first condition for the hudud punishments is that there must be a caliphate.
Other thing we should note if that if Hudud where true, the purpose of them is to deter people from doing. For example, not one condition of stoning woman was reported at the times of the prophet except in the cases when the woman her self spoke it out and said that she did this and that.
K.S.A is a place where the thief would have his hand cut. It is the only place where you can leave your car with the keys in the street.
Once it was reported about the caliphate omar that he forgave those who were stealing because he figured out that their employee wasn't giving them enough money.
Other thing one should note that many people prefer to have their hand cut off rather than spending time in prison away from family.
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outhouse
Atheistically
Wow, this thread escalated quickly.
Anyway, to answer the OP:
It's just another religion. Granted, one that may not inherently like me all that much (given that I'm gay, a "polytheist", and by my nature of not being a Muslim), but I think there is a good bit of philosophical and mystical beauty that can be found in Islam; particularly in Sufism.
Not really, but thanks for the offer.
We could argue why Islam (or any religion for that matter) is right or wrong until we are all blue in the face, but simply put: it is not the religion that called out to me, therefore I do not practice it. If it works for you, then fine. Just don't expect a convert out of me any time soon.
Anyway, to answer the OP:
It's just another religion. Granted, one that may not inherently like me all that much (given that I'm gay, a "polytheist", and by my nature of not being a Muslim), but I think there is a good bit of philosophical and mystical beauty that can be found in Islam; particularly in Sufism.
Not really, but thanks for the offer.
We could argue why Islam (or any religion for that matter) is right or wrong until we are all blue in the face, but simply put: it is not the religion that called out to me, therefore I do not practice it. If it works for you, then fine. Just don't expect a convert out of me any time soon.
Sabour
Well-Known Member
There's zilch to debate, Mohammed was just a man but Jesus was the Son of God, spot the difference?..
They were both prophets.
We believe in only one God while you believe in 3. Let us not play the spot the difference game
Sabour
Well-Known Member
I noticed that many pple are interested in sufism. Anyways thanks for you reply and it is good you said any time soon lol
Hey, that is a good question to make. What is your view of Sufism? Could you describe it, and how it relates to other branches of Islam?
Sabour
Well-Known Member
Communication problem is something I always have with you because of my English.
We are talking about people are born as belivers in a supreme being
The Trinity is not three gods. You need to understand a concept before you try to criticize it. Plus, not all Christians are Trinitarians, either.
That is a factor. There seems to be a bit more than that at work, though.
That, I understand, is a widely-held, very typical, very orthodox part of Muslim belief.
And I can tell you outright that it is wrong.
Monk Of Reason
༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ
Let me get this strait before anyone else misunderstands. The militant outlook of Muhammad himself wasn't extremist. However his words were easily warped and manipulated. There is more potential for harm than many other religions in this regard.
Why not treat them the same? Women and men as if there were no difference?
Pagan religions often have no negative for apostasy. Christianity has no negative associations other than going to hell which is only in the afterlife. It seems to me that there is a clear message in the Koran to cut off people who are apostates. Could the son or daughter of a Muslim family become an atheist and still be welcome ?
I have no read the whole Quran but I have read about 1/3rd of it. It seems, in my personal opinion, similar to other holy books. Perhaps its translated form looses much of his poetic beauty (as I have heard from all sources that the Quran is very beautifully written regardless of your belief in it). But I would find Illiad to be also that way.
On god? I am not convinced. I think that is the best way to describe it. I feel as if I am still waiting for some kind of conformation but I have stopped waiting.
There's zilch to debate, Mohammed was just a man but Jesus was the Son of God, spot the difference?..
No, as a matter of fact, I can't spot the difference.
Miracle stories all look alike to me.
Explain exactly why I should believe the Jesus story, but not the Muhammad story.
Actually, Islam makes more sense than Christianity. That isn't a high standard.
Tom
Triumphant_Loser
Libertarian Egalitarian
I know the Bible too has got harsh bits, but they're only in the Old Testament, and Jesus TRASHED them by giving us a New Testament..
Yet God (which includes Jesus) is also the one that made all of the harsh rules in the Old Testament to begin with. That's like a doctor purposely giving you a disease so he can sell you the cure. Ya' dig?
Sabour
Well-Known Member
Well ok considering embryology you believe it was already known. Well many people believe it is not. But there are other miracles in the Quraan too. It is not just that aspect.
Furthermore you can look into the prophecies made by the prophet muhammaf peace be upon him and see how accirate are they today.
The question you told me about is a queation one would ask no matter who was the prophet. There would always be a question of why him so this proves nothing.
However let me clarify there there is a total of about 124000 prophets who were sent out of which 25 were mentioned in the Quraan and the last of thwm was muhammad peace be upon him after Jesus peace be upin him. They all came with the message of woshiping God alone.
As far as I know sufism are muslims who take the hadith that says worship God as if you see Him, if you dont see Him than He aurwly sees you
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Sabour
Well-Known Member
I wish you look through this report and you would see the ranking of countries who are following Islamic teachings according to a study.
http://www.ahmad-juhaidi.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/how-islamic-islamic-countries.pdf
MD
qualiaphile
Could you enlighten me on the other miracles? The Galen bit is pretty well supported by most modern embryologists. Keith Moore and his cronies made their statement several decades ago and there are a lot of links with Saudi money in that.
From a purely objective perspective there is no proof of God either. Even though I believe in a divine universal being, it is my own subjective belief. However there is no proof, just a lot of faith and inference.
Why was the last prophet only 1400 years ago? Why nothing after that? What if we exist for another 1400 years as a species? Or another 1400 years after that? Don't you think people will start wondering why the last prophet was sent thousands of years ago. Does it make sense?
Lots of people have visions and prophecies, in modern medicine they are called schizophrenics and treated with medicine. What makes you so sure that Mohammed didn't have the same issue? Joan of Arc had a vision from God where she literally listened to the voice and led her army to victory. Why isn't she a prophet? Why are all prophets men?
I appreciate you taking the time to address all of our questions. I'm sure it's overwhelming.
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xkatz
Well-Known Member
Mixed. On one hand I admire that Muslims have adhered relatively strongly to orthodoxy in their faith and they are not afraid to practice what they preach (which unfortunately I can't say for many Jews and mainline Christians). And I do think Islam does a good job on emphasizing on ethical monotheism. OTOH, I think Muhammad is a false prophet/messiah and I find the way he is revered by many in the Islamic faith as almost idolatrous and in some ways reminds me of how communists revered their political leaders. I also find it hard to buy that Muhammad was given the Quran alone in a cave where no one could testify the veracity of the event. Also from personal experience, I am not all too pleased about what I personally saw on the Temple Mount in Israel-Palestine, but that's a whole 'nother rant
I have doubts about Muhammad as prophet of G-d. Also I like alcohol and dogs.
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