Your position about Islam

[psychoslice]

I respect your opinion, but there is an important difference between the three
Christ said to his followers
God so loved the world
As I have loved
Here the message of love is the essence of the teachings of Christ
. If the teachings of the Buddha are the same as those teachings
I agree with you and met with you too
Religion is important in the message of love

If only you were right, but your not, well at least totally.

 

[psychoslice]

Don't worry dear,we all know that you have a wonderful heart. Maybe you cut it too short to express your feelings.

I don't think so, I think what I say has merit, and all you have is your beliefs.

 

[JoStories]

No I don't feel the same way towards Buddhism, or Hinduism, but Christianity, Judaism, and Muslim. I do, these mainly three religions have caused nothing but misery on this planet, and we would be better of without them.

Perhaps it would Psycho. I have to admit your view on that. However, I have to also say that our current nursing theory, which incorporates spirituality, has done much good in the care of our patients and that has been proven by countless research studies as well as Pew surveys of patient satisfaction, Would you deny a dying woman the comfort of her faith as she passes? I sure wouldn't. But still, if those three faiths would have stopped and still stop the ridiculous violence and the blood on their hands, things would have been much better for many millions of people.

 

[JoStories]

My extended family are the nicest people in person. Its very complex and dynamic I agree. maybe I'm looking at the negative too much.





I probably am. But this is how I'm looking at it.

Here is my point, Its not fair but it is a similar example. Nazis lined up Jews and murdered them genocidal style. Sects in Islam are doing this also. Not all Nazi's were bad people, most were typical Germans but they needed to be stopped.

You could sit down to dinner with Nazi's and they were regular German people many with good hearts and very intelligent.


I honestly believe islam is much more fundamental then any other religion because as a whole it requires you to live the beliefs, not just practice them.

Now I do think YEC, and orthodox Jews, and all of Islam can be put in the same fundamental box so to speak. Am I wrong on that? None of these groups understand moderation.

The way I see it, is orthodox Jews are the minority of a small religious group who is for the most part non violent. All people can be but we don't read about them in the news daily.

YEC are a huge number and do pose a serious problem to academia in the USA which polls have shown to be about 40% of the population. But again for the most part non violent as a religious group.

Islam is committing genocide, and they have a long history of this. Much the same way Germany did, and we were not at war with Nazi's, we were at war with Germany.

So I'm going about this the wrong way, but when I think about 9/11 I think about Islamic problems that killed our brothers and I don't want it to happen again and again and again.

I appreciate your admitting that you might be wrong. Now, that said, as I just said to Pyscho, I am going to agree with you that there is much to answer for in all three faiths. It is true that Judaism and Christianity are not violent, but both have been in the past. Not now, I agree, but in the case of Christianity, there is so much blood on their hands. As for YEC, I agree. They are, IMO, total idiots and yes, they undermine the education of our youth. I don't want to see another 9/11 either but you have to admit, we were naive to think that it couldn't happen to us. And in fact, we were in all honesty, over due for an attack from someone.

 

[RAYYAN]

And when I say their wrong I am also saying most religions are wrong, especially those who poison the world around them..

and when I say, oh, the ignorance, I mean oh, the ignorance again

 

[RAYYAN]

We welcome you in dialogue
But honesty is the key to the truth
When he declares that the Koran is the word of God, you must prove that you
And when I tell you that it is not the Word of God
I offer you the evidence from the Koran and logic also
This is the style of dialogue which is not hatred
But dialogue and dialogue means honesty

ok, show me your evidence

 

[Theweirdtophat]

I don't agree with Islam but I show no ill will towards the adherents and I certainly don't blame all of them because of what the extremists do. Almost every religion has it's extremists and there's no reason to blame the innocent Muslims that have nothing to do with it.

I do think almost every religion has some truth even though I'm a Druid. I believe Islam has some truth, I just don't agree with all of the rules.

 

[Sabour]

1. I have no problem with Islam. I wish that the radicals did not make your faith seem so reprehensible to other people.
2. Why do you think that people view this faith so badly? And what of the verses within the Qu'ran that seem to indicate that Islam is spread by the sword?
3. Nothing is wrong with Islam save the members of ISIS who seem to take the Qu'ran as the basis of their idiocy.

1- I kinda wish the same

2- I would be a better position to answer if I knew the verses you were talking about ?

3- We are to blame also on that aspect. We should be better expressing how wrong ISIS is. Of all the problem ISIS is causing, I think it is hurting the muslims more than anyone else. Not only it is killing our brothers in humanity, but also our brothers in Islam. Additionally, ISIS is making the west subscribe to the idea that muslims are terrorists more and more. Hate it or not, that is the truth. Just like one week ago people in France were burning the Quraan. People will holding banners to kick muslims out of the country. We are being hated all over the world, just because of ISIS actions. Additionally, media seem to play its role also in spreading the hatred where only few media sources try to educate the crowd. ISIS is causing muslims problems more than anyone else. I will applaud the word "idiocy" that you used.

Thanks for your input.

 

[outhouse]

we were in all honesty, over due for an attack from someone.

Sadly it will be muslims

Christianity, there is so much blood on their hands

True. It "was" very primitive in the past.

But they did change, and they also changed their extreme beliefs, and most of the cultures that make up this group, have held their faith and became moderate. Due to higher education and knowledge levels.


If I have learned one thing from this website, it is that with education and knowledge, the less one needs to rely on primitive beliefs for guidance.

That does not mean one cannot hold then and be educated and successful.

 

[Sabour]

1. My position on Islam: no problem with it per se. But you do not believe in Christ resurrected if I am correct. Perhaps you could answer why not considering you believe in him as a prophet. If you gain all that info about Christ elsewhere, then fine. But if not all and some of it is from the NT, then why not believe he is resurrected?

2. see above

3. I don't see it as wrong nor any faith come to that. I think we are all part of God but some stand in a better position than others (if I can put it that way). Based off what I have seen of a London Mosque, I think you have a lot right, more than Christianity. The Jews also appear to be correct in many ways. But no one seems to have the whole ideal for me- the Jews also do not believe the Messiah has come yet.

Our source of knowledge regarding these topic are from Islam. That is from the Quraan and Hadith of the prophet peace be upon him. We believe that Jesus peace be upon him was a prophet like many other prophets and the next prophet after him, and the final one was Muhammad peace be upon him. All prophets essentially came and shared the same message which is worshiping God and only God and we believe Jesus peace be upon him was not different regarding that. However, the difference is that prophets came for there people only to share the message to their people, however Muhammad peace be upon him, since he is the final messenger, was sent for the whole mankind, and his message was preserved. That is why we only take the Quraan and the hadith as sources of information regarding stories of the prophets and such.

There are many verses that talk about Jesus peace be upon him in the Quraan. For example,

4:157 And [for] their saying, "Indeed, we have killed the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, the messenger of Allah ." And they did not kill him, nor did they crucify him; but [another] was made to resemble him to them. And indeed, those who differ over it are in doubt about it. They have no knowledge of it except the following of assumption. And they did not kill him, for certain.

4:158
Rather, Allah raised him to Himself. And ever is Allah Exalted in Might and Wise.

3:55
[Mention] when Allah said, "O Jesus, indeed I will take you and raise you to Myself and purify you from those who disbelieve and make those who follow you [in submission to Allah alone] superior to those who disbelieve until the Day of Resurrection. Then to Me is your return, and I will judge between you concerning that in which you used to differ.

There is also a sequence of verses in the chapter of "Mary" talking about the birth of the prophet Jesus peace be upon him

19:16-36

16 And mention, [O Muhammad], in the Book [the story of] Mary, when she withdrew from her family to a place toward the east.

17 And she took, in seclusion from them, a screen. Then We sent to her Our Angel, and he represented himself to her as a well-proportioned man.

18 She said, "Indeed, I seek refuge in the Most Merciful from you, [so leave me], if you should be fearing of Allah ."

19 He said, "I am only the messenger of your Lord to give you [news of] a pure boy."

20 She said, "How can I have a boy while no man has touched me and I have not been unchaste?"

21 He said, "Thus [it will be]; your Lord says, 'It is easy for Me, and We will make him a sign to the people and a mercy from Us. And it is a matter [already] decreed.' "

22 So she conceived him, and she withdrew with him to a remote place.

23 And the pains of childbirth drove her to the trunk of a palm tree. She said, "Oh, I wish I had died before this and was in oblivion, forgotten."

24 But he called her from below her, "Do not grieve; your Lord has provided beneath you a stream.

25 And shake toward you the trunk of the palm tree; it will drop upon you ripe, fresh dates.

26 So eat and drink and be contented. And if you see from among humanity anyone, say, 'Indeed, I have vowed to the Most Merciful abstention, so I will not speak today to [any] man.' "

27 Then she brought him to her people, carrying him. They said, "O Mary, you have certainly done a thing unprecedented.

28 O sister of Aaron, your father was not a man of evil, nor was your mother unchaste."

29 So she pointed to him. They said, "How can we speak to one who is in the cradle a child?"

30 [Jesus] said, "Indeed, I am the servant of Allah . He has given me the Scripture and made me a prophet.

31 And He has made me blessed wherever I am and has enjoined upon me prayer and zakah as long as I remain alive

32 And [made me] dutiful to my mother, and He has not made me a wretched tyrant.

33 And peace is on me the day I was born and the day I will die and the day I am raised alive."

34 That is Jesus, the son of Mary - the word of truth about which they are in dispute.

35 It is not [befitting] for Allah to take a son; exalted is He! When He decrees an affair, He only says to it, "Be," and it is.

36 [Jesus said], "And indeed, Allah is my Lord and your Lord, so worship Him. That is a straight path."

If you are interested, here is a link for a comprehensive listing of the verses which talk about Jesus peace be upon him http://www.4truth.net/fourtruthpbworld.aspx?pageid=8589953017

There are many things we know about Jesus peace be upon him through our prophet Muhammad peace be upon him, which happen to be the same as in Christianity, but there are differences also.

 

[Sabour]

Islam is wrong, and that is that, no need for augments.

Maybe you are in the debates section by mistake then

 

[psychoslice]

Perhaps it would Psycho. I have to admit your view on that. However, I have to also say that our current nursing theory, which incorporates spirituality, has done much good in the care of our patients and that has been proven by countless research studies as well as Pew surveys of patient satisfaction, Would you deny a dying woman the comfort of her faith as she passes? I sure wouldn't. But still, if those three faiths would have stopped and still stop the ridiculous violence and the blood on their hands, things would have been much better for many millions of people.

Yes it certainly would have been better of without them, and the dying woman is entitle to her belief that comforts her, just as child is with their belief in Santa.

 

[psychoslice]

and when I say, oh, the ignorance, I mean oh, the ignorance again

I wish it was just plain ignorance, but it aren't.

 

[psychoslice]

Maybe you are in the debates section by mistake then

Maybe, and maybe its good that I am here.

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

Our source of knowledge regarding these topic are from Islam. That is from the Quraan and Hadith of the prophet peace be upon him. We believe that Jesus peace be upon him was a prophet like many other prophets and the next prophet after him, and the final one was Muhammad peace be upon him. All prophets essentially came and shared the same message which is worshiping God and only God and we believe Jesus peace be upon him was not different regarding that. However, the difference is that prophets came for there people only to share the message to their people, however Muhammad peace be upon him, since he is the final messenger, was sent for the whole mankind, and his message was preserved. That is why we only take the Quraan and the hadith as sources of information regarding stories of the prophets and such.

There are many verses that talk about Jesus peace be upon him in the Quraan. For example,

4:157 And [for] their saying, "Indeed, we have killed the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, the messenger of Allah ." And they did not kill him, nor did they crucify him; but [another] was made to resemble him to them. And indeed, those who differ over it are in doubt about it. They have no knowledge of it except the following of assumption. And they did not kill him, for certain.

4:158
Rather, Allah raised him to Himself. And ever is Allah Exalted in Might and Wise.

3:55
[Mention] when Allah said, "O Jesus, indeed I will take you and raise you to Myself and purify you from those who disbelieve and make those who follow you [in submission to Allah alone] superior to those who disbelieve until the Day of Resurrection. Then to Me is your return, and I will judge between you concerning that in which you used to differ.

There is also a sequence of verses in the chapter of "Mary" talking about the birth of the prophet Jesus peace be upon him

19:16-36

16 And mention, [O Muhammad], in the Book [the story of] Mary, when she withdrew from her family to a place toward the east.

17 And she took, in seclusion from them, a screen. Then We sent to her Our Angel, and he represented himself to her as a well-proportioned man.

18 She said, "Indeed, I seek refuge in the Most Merciful from you, [so leave me], if you should be fearing of Allah ."

19 He said, "I am only the messenger of your Lord to give you [news of] a pure boy."

20 She said, "How can I have a boy while no man has touched me and I have not been unchaste?"

21 He said, "Thus [it will be]; your Lord says, 'It is easy for Me, and We will make him a sign to the people and a mercy from Us. And it is a matter [already] decreed.' "

22 So she conceived him, and she withdrew with him to a remote place.

23 And the pains of childbirth drove her to the trunk of a palm tree. She said, "Oh, I wish I had died before this and was in oblivion, forgotten."

24 But he called her from below her, "Do not grieve; your Lord has provided beneath you a stream.

25 And shake toward you the trunk of the palm tree; it will drop upon you ripe, fresh dates.

26 So eat and drink and be contented. And if you see from among humanity anyone, say, 'Indeed, I have vowed to the Most Merciful abstention, so I will not speak today to [any] man.' "

27 Then she brought him to her people, carrying him. They said, "O Mary, you have certainly done a thing unprecedented.

28 O sister of Aaron, your father was not a man of evil, nor was your mother unchaste."

29 So she pointed to him. They said, "How can we speak to one who is in the cradle a child?"

30 [Jesus] said, "Indeed, I am the servant of Allah . He has given me the Scripture and made me a prophet.

31 And He has made me blessed wherever I am and has enjoined upon me prayer and zakah as long as I remain alive

32 And [made me] dutiful to my mother, and He has not made me a wretched tyrant.

33 And peace is on me the day I was born and the day I will die and the day I am raised alive."

34 That is Jesus, the son of Mary - the word of truth about which they are in dispute.

35 It is not [befitting] for Allah to take a son; exalted is He! When He decrees an affair, He only says to it, "Be," and it is.

36 [Jesus said], "And indeed, Allah is my Lord and your Lord, so worship Him. That is a straight path."

If you are interested, here is a link for a comprehensive listing of the verses which talk about Jesus peace be upon him http://www.4truth.net/fourtruthpbworld.aspx?pageid=8589953017

There are many things we know about Jesus peace be upon him through our prophet Muhammad peace be upon him, which happen to be the same as in Christianity, but there are differences also.

This talk is not true
Mary's story in the Koran differ from the story in the Gospel
Visit the Koran and distorts facts
This is a special and great theme
Why announce Muhammad fighting to follow Yalchrist ???
If he believes in Christ, it is necessary to respect the followers of Christ also
But he said their fight in the famous verse of
The Fight those who do not believe in God, the last of the Jews and the Christians and today ???
Are you able to remove this contradiction ???

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

1- I kinda wish the same

2- I would be a better position to answer if I knew the verses you were talking about ?

3- We are to blame also on that aspect. We should be better expressing how wrong ISIS is. Of all the problem ISIS is causing, I think it is hurting the muslims more than anyone else. Not only it is killing our brothers in humanity, but also our brothers in Islam. Additionally, ISIS is making the west subscribe to the idea that muslims are terrorists more and more. Hate it or not, that is the truth. Just like one week ago people in France were burning the Quraan. People will holding banners to kick muslims out of the country. We are being hated all over the world, just because of ISIS actions. Additionally, media seem to play its role also in spreading the hatred where only few media sources try to educate the crowd. ISIS is causing muslims problems more than anyone else. I will applaud the word "idiocy" that you used.

Thanks for your input.

The Islamic state or the so-called Daash is the real face of Islam
So why deny it?
Islamic state in Iraq, and others carried out the correct teachings of Islam
So why are you afraid of this
In the West follows the pious
And proclaim to you today that your position is clear
That reject Islam Islamic Tlthakoa in your state

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

ok, show me your evidence

Open a special theme and enter a dialogue with you and prove to you that the Quran is not the word of God

 

[JoStories]

1- I kinda wish the same

2- I would be a better position to answer if I knew the verses you were talking about ?

3- We are to blame also on that aspect. We should be better expressing how wrong ISIS is. Of all the problem ISIS is causing, I think it is hurting the muslims more than anyone else. Not only it is killing our brothers in humanity, but also our brothers in Islam. Additionally, ISIS is making the west subscribe to the idea that muslims are terrorists more and more. Hate it or not, that is the truth. Just like one week ago people in France were burning the Quraan. People will holding banners to kick muslims out of the country. We are being hated all over the world, just because of ISIS actions. Additionally, media seem to play its role also in spreading the hatred where only few media sources try to educate the crowd. ISIS is causing muslims problems more than anyone else. I will applaud the word "idiocy" that you used.

Thanks for your input.

There are 109 verses in the Koran that speak of violence. I will post a couple from a web blog called "The Religious of Peace; Guide to Understanding Islam".
Koran 2; 191-193: And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief or unrest] is worse than killing...

but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah [disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah] and worship is for Allah alone.

Koran 5; 33: "The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned;

Koran 9; 5: So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captive and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them."

 

[JoStories]

Sadly it will be muslims




True. It "was" very primitive in the past.

But they did change, and they also changed their extreme beliefs, and most of the cultures that make up this group, have held their faith and became moderate. Due to higher education and knowledge levels.


If I have learned one thing from this website, it is that with education and knowledge, the less one needs to rely on primitive beliefs for guidance.

That does not mean one cannot hold then and be educated and successful.

It may well be Muslims that attack us but it is also possible it could be North Korea or Russia. The latter is less likely however.
Yes, it was in the past that Christianity spilled so much blood but is not Islam going through the same 'growing pain' that Christianity did? I further agree that education and understanding are necessary to wisdom but I also believe the education and knowledge can be garnered by having belief in a deity, as you say in your last remarks. And btw love, good morning and I hope it will be a wonderful day. Kiss kiss darling.

 

[Sabour]

There are 109 verses in the Koran that speak of violence. I will post a couple from a web blog called "The Religious of Peace; Guide to Understanding Islam".
Koran 2; 191-193: And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief or unrest] is worse than killing...

but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah [disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah] and worship is for Allah alone.

Koran 5; 33: "The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned;

Koran 9; 5: So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captive and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them."

Note that I will be pasting this from a reply in another thread as I faced lots of these questions,


This particular verse you quoted is talking about a certain group of disbelievers who made a treaty with the prophet peace be upon him but broke it. You can see that from the start of the chapter.
1 [This is a declaration of] disassociation, from Allah and His Messenger, to those with whom you had made a treaty among the polytheists.
2 So travel freely, [O disbelievers], throughout the land [during] four months but know that you cannot cause failure to Allah and that Allah will disgrace the disbelievers.
3 And [it is] an announcement from Allah and His Messenger to the people on the day of the greater pilgrimage that Allah is disassociated from the disbelievers, and [so is] His Messenger. So if you repent, that is best for you; but if you turn away - then know that you will not cause failure to Allah . And give tidings to those who disbelieve of a painful punishment.
4 Excepted are those with whom you made a treaty among the polytheists and then they have not been deficient toward you in anything or supported anyone against you; so complete for them their treaty until their term [has ended]. Indeed, Allah loves the righteous [who fear Him].
5 And when the sacred months have passed, then kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they should repent, establish prayer, and give zakah, let them [go] on their way. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.
6 And if any one of the polytheists seeks your protection, then grant him protection so that he may hear the words of Allah . Then deliver him to his place of safety. That is because they are a people who do not know.
7 How can there be for the polytheists a treaty in the sight of Allah and with His Messenger, except for those with whom you made a treaty at al-Masjid al-Haram? So as long as they are upright toward you, be upright toward them. Indeed, Allah loves the righteous [who fear Him].
8 How [can there be a treaty] while, if they gain dominance over you, they do not observe concerning you any pact of kinship or covenant of protection? They satisfy you with their mouths, but their hearts refuse [compliance], and most of them are defiantly disobedient.

However, as for combating, the rules in Islam is clear through other verses.

Islam is a system of life which tells you how you are supposed to live your life. So it provides answers or a pattern of thinking/response to every single situation you would face. If verses were removed, it will cease to be perfect and it would open people to retaliate the way they want and not the way God wants them too. Since Islam is a complete way of life it is normal to find verses where it tells you how to react when you are facing a war because regardless of whether we like that or not, it is part of life.


2:190 Fight in the way of Allah those who fight you but do not transgress. Indeed. Allah does not like transgressors.

2:191 And kill them wherever you overtake them and expel them from wherever they have expelled you, and fitnah is worse than killing. And do not fight them at al-Masjid al- Haram until they fight you there. But if they fight you, then kill them. Such is the recompense of the disbelievers.

2:192 And if they cease, then indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.

2:193
Fight them until there is no [more] fitnah and [until] worship is [acknowledged to be] for Allah . But if they cease, then there is to be no aggression except against the oppressors.

2:194
[Fighting in] the sacred month is for [aggression committed in] the sacred month, and for [all] violations is legal retribution. So whoever has assaulted you, then assault him in the same way that he has assaulted you. And fear Allah and know that Allah is with those who fear Him.

If you look at the conditions to fight those than you will find,
1- They are the ones who started the fight.
2- They transgressed,.
3- Third they are the ones who expelled you out of your home.
4- regardless of all that, if they stopped, you have to stop too.


I don't think there exist anyone who has these ethics when it comes to war.