rojse
RF Addict
Add the Baby Bonus to that - think of all the idiot teenagers having children to get their five thousand dollars, never minding how much it costs to raise a child.
What sort of home environment will these children grow up in?
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
Your view on abortion. Atheist welcome.
- Thread starter S-word
- Start date
Add the Baby Bonus to that - think of all the idiot teenagers having children to get their five thousand dollars, never minding how much it costs to raise a child.
What sort of home environment will these children grow up in?
rojse
RF Addict
Oh, that was a terrible movie, that. The original was far better, and is easily worth two hours of your time, compared to the updated rubbish recently released.
Circle_One
Well-Known Member
Yes my dear, and YOU would be the one who didn't. Because if you did, you would respect ALL life and not just those you deem worthy to respect. Which means, you would also respect the life of the mother, and this respect her will. But of course, the will of others means nothing to closed-minded people like you, does it? All that matters is pushing your ideals down the throat of another.
Talk to me when you've got facts, not speculations and bleeding heart stories. Ask my 10 year old son, that I had at 17 and have raised ALONE for the last 10 years whether I respect his life or not, alright? Before you make judgemental, unfounded statements, take a moment to understand the person about whom you're making these statements, hmmm? That might work to your favor in the future.
Magic Man
Reaper of Conversation
I doubt you'll find anyone who thinks that having an abortion at 20 weeks is acceptable unless the circumstances are extenuating.
That's a little extreme, and no.
Yes, that's the difference here. Pro-choicers just don't respect life.
Seriously, that's just plain ridiculous. Please come up with something that at least makes sense.
Circle_One
Well-Known Member
Ok, let me say a few things about this post, Leah, if I may.
I'm 27. I drink. I smoke. I don't do drugs anymore, though I used to. I do not gossip, nor do I hang around anyone who does. I got top grades and finished highschool and college at the top of my class. I have a desire to learn and always have. I care about my future.
I had a child when in highschool. I had him because at that time, I didn't believe in abortion for MYSELF. I'd had friends who had them and I never treated them differently because I respected their decisions, but I, myself, couldn't have done it. I've raised him alone since the moment he was born. I also continued to go to highschool and then put myself through college, while working full time just so my son would have someone to look up to. I've screwed up in my life and I am not perfect, but because of my drive and perserverence, I've been the best mother my son could hope for, while at the same time working and going to school so he could also have someone as a role model in his life.
While I was in college, I got pregnant again, through stupid and careless mistakes. I assessed my situation and the situation of the child I already had.
I could not afford to continue school and work and take care of another child with the salary I had. As it was, my time was limited with my son. If I had another to take care of, it would be even less so. Both children would end up with less, financially than my one son already have and both would end up with less of a mother. I made the decision to have an abortion. It was a hard decision, but one I felt I needed to make on the behalf of my child that was already here.
Today, my son is 10. I'm still taking care of him alone. I'm STILL going to school to make a better person out of myself and give him a better person to look up to. I work three jobs just to give him everything I think he should have.
I think I am a good person. I am confident in myself and who I am. My beautiful boy was born 9 weeks earlier at less than 4 lbs because my body was not ready to carry a child at that point. I'm am 27 now. My son is 10 and is just as smart, happy and energetic as any other child, though the doctors told me it could have gone either way, given his premature-ness. My life and that of my boy is what it should be and only got that way because of the hard decisions I've made over the last ten years.
You don't want anyone judging you, so now please tell me, now that you know my life story and that of my child's, Am I a horrible person? Am I a murderer? Am I someone who should be condemned and ridiculed and ostricized?
Maybe you could list off some supportable, defensible, measurable criteria to differentiate a person from a non-person.
If you want just one healthy baby, maybe... but you can go on just about any state Child and Family Services web site and see listing after listing for children up for adoption who don't meet that: they're older kids, not babies... or they have behavioural or medical problems... or they're part of a package deal with a set of siblings.
No, it does state what a human is. The legal line between "not a person" and "person" is quite clear. You just don't like where it is, apparently.
The ironic thing is that the pro-life side shares quite a bit of the blame for the current situation in the US, where abortion is legal at any stage of pregnancy.
I think that things have devolved into an "armed camp" mentality: any concession is seen as a step toward a total prohibition of abortion, and therefore is fought tooth-and-nail. I think most pro-choice people would consider limits or even prohibitions on late-term abortions as a reasonable compromise, but don't want to have any part of the step-wise prohibition of abortion as a whole.
pray4me
Active Member
I don't think you're a bad person but I do think you did the wrong thing. Good people do bad things all the time. Just because that baby wasn't something you wanted doesn't mean it wouldn't have been possible for you to take care of both children. I think the fact that your 10 year old son is doing so well proves that anyone who might have suggested back in your teenage years that you get an abortion was wrong. Your baby turned out fine and even though you were a young girl when you had him, it didn't ruin your life. I don't think it would have ruined your life to have given your second baby a chance either.
Circle_One
Well-Known Member
I never said that baby wasn't something I wanted. I didn't have it because I KNEW I COULDN'T take care of both children. It was a difficult decision for me to make, but one I knew I had to.
The point of my post was to explain to you prolifers that things change when you're in that situation. I was a pro-lifer until I was faced with a situation that I knew couldn't be resolved with "Oh, just have it, somehow it'll work out in the end." When you've already got someone to look after, and you're 18, working 3 jobs and going to school to take care of that one you already have, alone, you don't necessarily know what decision you'll make. You say you do now, but until you're actually faced with that decision, NO ONE can tell me they know what answer they'll come up with.
Magic Man
Reaper of Conversation
There's nothing wrong with MySpace, partying, drinking or smoking, except, of course, you're not old enough for the last two. You're a kid. You should act like it sometimes. It's nothing to be ashamed of. We've all been there. We've all been the stupid kid only concerned with partying and other unimportant pursuits. That's what you're supposed to do as a kid. I'm glad you also have a desire to learn and you care about your future, but don't let that get in your way of being a kid. You have plenty of time later to get all serious.
You are well-spoken and intelligent. However, you have a lot to learn, and not because you're 16, but because you're human (meaning we all have a lot to learn). I think the most important thing to learn is that everything's a perspective.
pray4me
Active Member
There's nothing wrong with someone who doesn't do those things either. Of course everyone has been selfish at times but that doesn't mean they necessarily have to be stupid about it. It's all well and good to say that there's nothing wrong with smoking until you have to live with the consequences it brings. Smoking is dangerous to your health and it's because of people who encourage kids to try it that there's so many smokers in the world. But this really is a different topic for a different board so I'll just leave it at that.
McBell
Admiral Obvious
It is called stereotyping.
Something you claim sickens you, but you did not hesitate to stereotype those who have abortions...
This very post I am replying to seems to indicate otherwise.
I do not recall anyone saying you were stupid.
Being confident is fine.
At least until it gets in the way of your learning.
I am not judging based on your age.
Your age is irrelevant other than it explains your lack of experience.
I do not fault people for their lack of experience.
Nor do I expect people to know things they were never taught.
I do, however fault people who refuse to present their sources when flat out asked.
I do fault people who refuse to learn in order to hold onto their preconceived faulty notions.
I do fault people who say one thing then do another.
You are only human.
Magic Man
Reaper of Conversation
Yes, obviously smoking can have very bad consequences. I know, considering I smoked for 14 years of my life. What I meant was that doing those stupid things that kids do is not necessarily a bad thing. Obviously, there's nothing wrong with someone who doesn't do them either. I just don't think Leah should specifically not do them because she doesn't want to be childish like everyone thinks 16-year-olds are. That's what youth is for, especially since she seems plenty intelligent enough to know when to stop.
What is it?
I disagree. I think the law defines "who is a person", not what a person is.
Edit: and only for its purposes.
Last edited:
leahrachelle
Active Member
Well first of all, I would put a lot of thought into it
leahrachelle
Active Member
You should know what my response is going to be to this
leahrachelle
Active Member
Honestly, thats what 9 people decided the law said.
leahrachelle
Active Member
Yeah, it was bad. But I liked that point that was proven - good theme
leahrachelle
Active Member
Oh because 9 months of inconvenience is harsher than killing?
Is there any particular reason for this apparent contempt for the judicial process?
Roe v. Wade aside, what do you make of the fact that a fetus has never been considered a person for the purposes of the law in any regard? For example, at any time since the fourteenth amendment was passed, have fetuses been counted in "the whole number of persons in each State" referred to in it? How exactly did "9 people decide" to do things that way?