Well, I would agree with you if I believed that Heaven was going to be the same for everyone who ends up going there. Jesus Christ said we would be rewarded according to our works, and I believe that. Paul spoke of there being various "degrees of glory" in the resurrection. Since I believe there will be a pretty significant difference between these, I don't feel at all inclined to believe that God is merciful enough to see at least some good in all of His children and to reward that good accordingly. According to LDS thought, the highest degree of glory means being exalted, becoming god-like, and having the opportunity to continue to progress eternally. Only a relative few, I believe, will attain that state -- and no, they won't all be "Mormons."Judgement Day said:
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You're going to Heaven, like it or not!
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gnostic
The Lost One
The thing is that I don't want any afterlife whatsoever.
I don't want to be in heaven in more than I want to be in hell, irrespective of the existences of God, gods, satan, angels, elves, goblins and the fairy godmothers. And I also don't to be reincarnated too.
From the perspectives of the atheists, I would guess they would say all prophets are false. From my perspective, I can't take their words (the prophets' words) at their face values, so I would scruntinise them all. Their words may inspire me to be moved, but at the same time they don't inspire me to accept their faith blindly as my own.
Having said that, I don't want to be in the presence of God or Satan.
I don't want to be in heaven in more than I want to be in hell, irrespective of the existences of God, gods, satan, angels, elves, goblins and the fairy godmothers. And I also don't to be reincarnated too.
From the perspectives of the atheists, I would guess they would say all prophets are false. From my perspective, I can't take their words (the prophets' words) at their face values, so I would scruntinise them all. Their words may inspire me to be moved, but at the same time they don't inspire me to accept their faith blindly as my own.
Having said that, I don't want to be in the presence of God or Satan.
JillianMarie77
Member
Are you saying you believe this god exists in an objective way? I realize that this god is real and powerful because so many accept that he Is.Ðanisty said:
I don't think I've ever encountered anyone who believes in the literal existence of the GOTB and detests him.
Care to share?
NEVER MIND - just finished the thread here. Your religion sounds very gnostic to me. I though Luciferian was an LHP religion. No?
The Grey Wolf
ehT daM s'doG daM goD
My plan is Ill live my earthly life as well as I can. Then when I die Ill see whats what with the after life, if there is one, then Ill chose sides. To be honest though, if gods gonna brain wash me into loving him he can go jump off a cliff. I am not one to go quietly. If he forces me to do anything, regardless of wether I want to or not, Ill turn on him faster than a burger at a BBQ. I like my free will thank you. Im with Danisty. Death before dishonor, or rather Oblivion before opression.:jam:
Ðanisty said:
Hello, Danisty.
I've read some of your earlier posts, and there seems to be more than a few similarities in the philosophies of our beliefs.
I also have no problem if one chooses to re-define the Pure Light as Lucifer. I've said before that the terminology is somewhat relative. It is the intention behind the words that matters most in this venue.
I also think the Pure Light is re-defined in other traditions by other names............of course, this is quite universalist, I realize, but my tradition technically has no issues with this.
Peace,
Mystic
sojourner
Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
God didn't reveal religion to us...religion is a human construct, developed in response to God revealing God's self to us.
"I don't want an afterlife...I don't want to be in heaven...I don't want to be reincarnated." All of these statements are egocentric. From the Christian point of view, God is the center of the universe, not the individual. Truth eminates from God, and God encompasses reality. My personal response to your post is this: One day, you will discover that the reality of God is more real than the reality you suppose based upon your own self. And you will know that you are part of something much more expansive than yourself.
God doesn't coerce. God doesn't force. God doesn't brainwash... God loves. When faced with that all-encompassing love, when you know the ultimate specialness of yourself, as seen in the light of God, you'll respond to that...just like you respond to the warmth of the sun, or the smell of bacon, or a friendly "Good morning!"
i am not going to heaven ,my hope is to live on the paradise earth that the bible promisesBut there are new heavens (rulership)and a new earth(earthly society of people) that we are awaiting according to his promise, and in these righteousness is to dwell .... 2 peter 3;13
And they will indeed find their exquisite delight in the abundance of peace ... psalm 37;11
(Matthew 5:5) "Happy are the mild-tempered ones, since they will inherit the earth.......... i am trying my best to be meek and mild-tempered...............
But the meek ones themselves will possess the earth,
And they will indeed find their exquisite delight in the abundance of peace ... psalm 37;11
(Matthew 5:5) "Happy are the mild-tempered ones, since they will inherit the earth.......... i am trying my best to be meek and mild-tempered...............
DakotaGypsy
Active Member
You know, if everyone is obliged to go to heaven, it creates an enormous problem.
If I have to go to heaven, it will cease to be heaven for hordes of people. Where will the heaven be then?
If I have to go to heaven, it will cease to be heaven for hordes of people. Where will the heaven be then?
Judgement Day
Active Member
Well, then we are different. Allah says in Quran:sojourner said:
"This day have I perfected for you your religion and completed My favor on you and chosen for you Islam as a religion"(Al-Maidah:3)
"I" and "My" refers to Allah.
Peace to you...
Ãanisty
Well-Known Member
Oh, I know God is the father and he created the universe (but I don't believe Genesis is literal...I know the earth is older than the bible says). I just don't care. I choose to live a life without God.
You recognize them for what you believe they truly are. None of us knows for certain what goes on in the mind of God.
It is pretty gnostic, actually. I know a lot of people who consider themselves Gnostic Luciferians. As far as LHP, yes it is a LHP religion depending on how you define LHP. I've seen many debates over that very subject and no resolution ever came out of them. I'm what you would call a Theistic Luciferian. Not all Luciferians are theistic.
Is it turkey bacon? Otherwise, I think some of the Jews might be screwed (j/k). Seriously though. You can not define for anyone else how they will respond to God. I don't respond well to the warmth of the sun, and I certainly don't respond well to anything in the morning. I'm telling you that I am a Luciferian. I love Lucifer. I don't love God. I don't care how God feels about me. There is nothing you can do to change that. I am devoted to Lucifer just as much as any good Christian is devoted to Christ.
Super Universe
Defender of God
In my opinion, instead of choosing to live your life without God you are choosing to live your life without man-made religion and seeking the Creator, just under a different name.
God only wants what is best for us but He will not involve Himself with our development because we wouldn't accept it anyway.
Did you listen and obey everything that your parents warned you about?
A child can be told many times to stay out of the street but only when they hear the loud screaching of the tires and see the car approaching do they really understand.
God does not need for us to perform rituals, give Him gifts, or hurt ourselves to prove our worth. People blame God for what religion did to them. But all of that blame is on humans. Us. We do that to ourselves, our children, and our friends.
God only wants what is best for us but He will not involve Himself with our development because we wouldn't accept it anyway.
Did you listen and obey everything that your parents warned you about?
A child can be told many times to stay out of the street but only when they hear the loud screaching of the tires and see the car approaching do they really understand.
God does not need for us to perform rituals, give Him gifts, or hurt ourselves to prove our worth. People blame God for what religion did to them. But all of that blame is on humans. Us. We do that to ourselves, our children, and our friends.
Ãanisty
Well-Known Member
:banghead3 No, I don't know how else to make this clear to you. I believe in a creator God and I reject him. I don't care who my creator is because he doesn't determine my life. I determine my life. In fact, I have a religion! I don't in any way believe that Lucifer is the creator of man or anything else. He was made in this world the same way we all were. He is like us...he is our brother.
Maybe you have a hard time conceiving of it, but parents are not always good people. Just because God is the father does not mean that he's right. We are not carbon copies of our parents and there isn't one right way to do anything.
I've said this before and I will keep saying it until you get it. I don't have any beef with religion. I am a religious person myself...I'm just not Christian. I blame God for actions that God has taken as recorded in the bible. If you don't want to believe he took those actions, that's fine, but I have a hard time understanding how you can be a Christian if you don't believe anything in the bible.
Congratulations though on derailing the topic with your asanine attempts to tell me what I believe. I don't mind if you want to know about my religion but that comes from asking questions...not making declarations about my beliefs.
JillianMarie77
Member
"It is pretty gnostic, actually. I know a lot of people who consider themselves Gnostic Luciferians. As far as LHP, yes it is a LHP religion depending on how you define LHP. I've seen many debates over that very subject and no resolution ever came out of them. I'm what you would call a Theistic Luciferian. Not all Luciferians are theistic."
* I see. We find the same variations within the temple (theists and non). How do YOU define LHP? I've never expereinced any other LHP religion so I only know how I define and how the TOS defines, generally.
* I see. We find the same variations within the temple (theists and non). How do YOU define LHP? I've never expereinced any other LHP religion so I only know how I define and how the TOS defines, generally.
Ãanisty
Well-Known Member
I personally define LHP as a path that leads to personal empowerment through self-discovery, non-reliant on a higher source of power. RHP religions require a gift of salvation. LHP religions require you to find your own salvation. My salvation is not a gift from Lucifer. The tools to acquire my salvation were provided by him. I have to make it through all by myself. He is not judging me. I am judging myself and let me tell you, I'm a pretty harsh critic. That is, of course, a personal definition.JillianMarie77 said:
Are you a member of the Temple of Set? If so, would you describe yourself as a theist or an atheist? Just curious.
JillianMarie77
Member
Ðanisty said:
Okay so we have a different definition of RHP but a similar one of LHP. Thats interesting!
Yes I am a member of the TOS, 1st degree. I describe myself as agnostic because its easiest. Certainly I'm atheist if you consider the commonly accepted versions of "god" however *I* exist so there can't be NO god
joeboonda
Well-Known Member
Well, I wanna go to Heaven, Jesus said if I belive in Him I will go. So I just trust Him and not my own righteousness. When I believed, the Bible says His righteousness was imputed onto me, my sins were all paid for and forgiven and blotted out and removed as far as the east from the west, I became a new creature, adopted as God's child, sealed with His Spirit which can't be broken, I am in His hands who is greater than all and nothing can pluck me out, He will in no wise cast me out or leave me or forsake me. I am not perfect, but forgiven, a child of God whom He loves and corrects, but I will always be His child, just like my children will always be my children, sometimes out of fellowship, but never out of relationship. Yes, I wanna go to Heaven, and I just trust the good Lord to keep me and take me Home one day. I love you all and hope we all go to Heaven, as the Lord does not wish for any to perish but for all to come to Him. I hope I will be in Heaven and be with all of you there, and I hope none of us goes to Hell. I shudder to think of such a place, but I know its there. Trust Jesus, not your own goodness, and may God bless us, lead us, and guide us into all truth and to Heaven.
Mike
Mike
Super Universe
Defender of God
Ðanisty said:
Most people would not consider me a Christian because I do not choose to be so contrained with this terribly outdated human theory of God. I do not attend church because it is a human creation that replaces God. I do not believe that Jesus was God because Jesus said that He was the Son, just as all men are the Son of God.
I cannot tell you how, each person will be shown in a way that is specific to them, but I absolutely know that God has created this universe out of love for us. So logically speaking, anything that conflicts with that idea is wrong.
I tell you the only thing God truly performed was the creation of the universe. God did not cause a flood, the earth changed and the angels had Noah build an ark to SAVE as much life as possible. God did not send fire and brimstone to destroy Soddom and Gomorrah, it was simply struck by a meteor. God did not punish women for Eve's actions, Eve commited adultery so she lost her immortality by judgement of her own kind. God is not so spiteful and petty, those are human faults.
What if Lucifer is truly the Creator of the universe? It's all just names. Some being created all of this and there are many, many names for Him: God, Brahma, Vishnu, Allah, Jehovah, Yahweh... But you choose a name that immediately sets people back on their heels, one that history says is a rebel against the Creator. So you too rebel and want everyone to know that you are not going to be pushed around anymore. Well I'm pushing...
We've all been hurt in our past by things, believe me I know that not all parents are good. I could tell you some stories... how I was tortured with religion by a Jehovah's Witness cult. Their idea of God was shoved down my throat and even though I couldn't breathe my spiritually ignorant parents kept forcing it down farther and farther.
But they did those things, they're responsible because they were the adults, not me, I was a child, what could I do? What was I responsible for? They are responsible because they are the ones who should have known better. I did not become responsible until I became an adult, and now it's all on me regardless of what my ****ty parents did.
It is not an acceptable excuse for a man who was abused by his parents to then abuse his own children. Religion is an excuse that some ignorant people wield like a weapon. The things we do to our children...
People blame God for those things because they figure that He should have stepped in and done something or at least not created a Christian religion that abuses it's weakest members. We blame God for hurricanes and flat tires, accidents, and but there really are no bad experiences. They are simply experiences.
If you really want to know what a bad experience is then I will tell you that it is a person who does not learn from their own mistakes or those of others.
You are supposed to have a full life experience. There is so much here to learn, good and bad, and God does not want to taint any of it.
He could point out this and that and do things for you like a parent does for their child but at some point doesn't the child wish to climb into the car seat and connect the seatbelt for themself? You chose to climb into the seat when you were born so you are strong enough to recognize and correct the painful mistakes that human adults made in your life.
joeboonda
Well-Known Member
Super Universe said:
Sounds like you had it rough, while there are JW's on this forum, I won't say anything to offend them other than I don't agree with a lot of their doctrine. They seem to add works to faith, for salvation, where I believe that once one has trusted Christ, they are saved forevermore, works just an evidence of our salvation, but that's just me. You have some different beliefs, and kinda strange in a funny way to me, but interesting. I wanted to point out that Jesus said in Jn 3:16 that God sent His ONLY begotten Son. So, I believe we humans are created beings, and Jesus is the Son of God and is actually God too. But I won't get into that debate, eh? I agree parents have a big responsibility to raise their children in love and acceptance no matter what, and that its important to learn from your mistakes. Nice talking to you.
Mike
Super Universe
Defender of God
The thing that convinces me that Jesus was the Son of God, and not God incarnated on earth, is the way He talks about the Father. Matthew 6:14 "your heavenly Father will forgive you." There are many more instances of this. Jesus does not say "I will forgive you."
But certainly we can debate the issue forever.
I don't blame the Jehovah's Witnesses. Just like all religion, the people are trying to do what they feel is best. And I do believe that most JW's are good people. But also like so many religions, we tie our hands and torture ourselves needlessly. Some JW's will actually allow their children to die before getting a blood transfusion. This is not what God wants. How could He possibly want that?
Those old rules were put in the Old Testament because humans thousands of years ago were flippin idiots and didn't know that blood carries virus' and you can't just take blood from any human and use it for another. Yet even though it's now the year 2006, people still don't get it. They want to keep the old rules, but not all of them, just some. The ones that suit the kind of life they wish to force on others.
Everything single thing that causes humans pain is caused by us. We do it to ourselves and blame God. Don't we know enough about hurricanes to get out of the way? If you are going to live in tornado alley then don't you accept the risk? Don't we now know that virus' and germs are out there and what they can do? Don't we know that cars can crash?
We keep looking in a book that is 2,000-4,000 years old trying to find explanations for what's happening today. "How come I'm not happy God?" we ask. We shout. As if His creating the universe for us is not enough. None of this HAS to be here. There does not have to be enough air for us to breathe or a sun placed at the precise distance away. Yet even that is not enough for us, we want Him to make us rich as well.
This is all for us. It really is. Religion worries about doing what they think God wants us to do when all we need to really do is live and try to be happy!
All of the other stuff will come afterwards like: dedicating our lives towards others rather than to ourselves and reducing our desire for material things.
But certainly we can debate the issue forever.
I don't blame the Jehovah's Witnesses. Just like all religion, the people are trying to do what they feel is best. And I do believe that most JW's are good people. But also like so many religions, we tie our hands and torture ourselves needlessly. Some JW's will actually allow their children to die before getting a blood transfusion. This is not what God wants. How could He possibly want that?
Those old rules were put in the Old Testament because humans thousands of years ago were flippin idiots and didn't know that blood carries virus' and you can't just take blood from any human and use it for another. Yet even though it's now the year 2006, people still don't get it. They want to keep the old rules, but not all of them, just some. The ones that suit the kind of life they wish to force on others.
Everything single thing that causes humans pain is caused by us. We do it to ourselves and blame God. Don't we know enough about hurricanes to get out of the way? If you are going to live in tornado alley then don't you accept the risk? Don't we now know that virus' and germs are out there and what they can do? Don't we know that cars can crash?
We keep looking in a book that is 2,000-4,000 years old trying to find explanations for what's happening today. "How come I'm not happy God?" we ask. We shout. As if His creating the universe for us is not enough. None of this HAS to be here. There does not have to be enough air for us to breathe or a sun placed at the precise distance away. Yet even that is not enough for us, we want Him to make us rich as well.
This is all for us. It really is. Religion worries about doing what they think God wants us to do when all we need to really do is live and try to be happy!
All of the other stuff will come afterwards like: dedicating our lives towards others rather than to ourselves and reducing our desire for material things.