Does Christmas have anything to do with Christ?

[savagewind]

OK. Were the angels that visited Abraham wicked angels? Do you know that story?

 

[MikeSavage]

OK. Were the angels that visited Abraham wicked angels? Do you know that story?

They weren't.

 

[savagewind]

They weren't.

OK. Why do angels of Jehovah (not wicked angels) NOT visit in human form anymore like the governing body SAY they don't?

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I am looking. So far I have found one which seems to say they still DO visit us.
Do not neglect to show hospitality to strangers, for thereby some have entertained angels unawares. Hebrews 13:2
But during the night an angel of the Lord opened the prison doors and brought them out Acts 5:19
For this very night there stood before me an angel of the God to whom I belong and whom I worship Acts 27:23
Then the woman came and told her husband, “A man of God came to me, and his appearance was like the appearance of the angel of God, very awesome. I did not ask him where he was from, and he did not tell me his nameJudges 13:6
The angel of the Lord found her by a spring of water in the wilderness, the spring on the way to Shur. Genesis 16:7
I am not asking about rebel angels. I am talking about messenger angles like them who visited Abraham.

Today there are No materialized angels as in Bible past history, but please notice the mention of invisible messenger angels in the Bible book of Revelation, and the part which invisible angels play in our day such as in Revelation chapter 7. Plus, it's the angels who help those who dwell on earth proclaim the ' good news of God's kingdom ' [ Matthew 24 v 14 ] on an international scale.

At the coming time of Revelation 19 vs 11,14,15 please notice in verse 14 that it's the ' armies in heaven ' which are the heavenly angels who assist Jesus, as Commander in Chief of the angels, to rid the earth of all wickedness.

 

[savagewind]

Today there are No materialized angels as in Bible past history, but please notice the mention of invisible messenger angels in the Bible book of Revelation, and the part which invisible angels play in our day such as in Revelation chapter 7. Plus, it's the angels who help those who dwell on earth proclaim the ' good news of God's kingdom ' [ Matthew 24 v 14 ] on an international scale.

At the coming time of Revelation 19 vs 11,14,15 please notice in verse 14 that it's the ' armies in heaven ' which are the heavenly angels who assist Jesus, as Commander in Chief of the angels, to rid the earth of all wickedness.

That is my qestion. HOW do you know "Today there are No materialized angels"?

 

[savagewind]

Who says angels do not materialize any more?

 

[URAVIP2ME]

No, they aren't. Yule was one of MANY holy days honoring the return of the Dying God and the sun. Odin was not the Dying God of the Aesir, Baldur was. Odin was the All-Father, who created this world from the corpse of a slain giant.
I'm not sure which culture the word Yule comes from, but the symbols borrowed by Christianity weren't even wholly Norse. They were appropriated from all over Northwestern Europe. Holly, for instance, with its blood red berries, had particular significance in the Celtic Isles.

I had heard years ago that Baldur was a Sun god or that the gold Christmas balls represented Baldur because of the gold ball shape representing the Sun represented Baldur. ?

As the ancient people migrated from ancient Babylon they took with them their religious-myth ideas and practices and spread them world wide into a greater religious Babylon or Babylon the Great. I recall seeing on the Nimrod campers the symbol of 3 tree evergreens, and was told that the Nimrod of Genesis 10:8 used the evergreen as his symbol of everlasting life.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Who says angels do not materialize any more?

Please post which Scripture referring to our day or time frame [ Rev. 1 v 10 ] dealing with materialized angels which you have in mind.

The protecting angelic armies of Revelation chapter 19 are Not visible.
At 2nd Kings 6 vs 15-17 the protecting angels were Not materialized ones.
Psalm 91 is about the promise of spiritual angelic protection from spiritual dangers
- Psalm 91 v 11
Are the angels visible ones at the soon coming ' time of separation' on earth of Matthew 25 vs 31-33, or rather the invisible angels helping maneuver matters to remove the wicked from earth - Matthew 13 vs 41,49. See also invisible angels helping the invisible archangel Michael at Rev. 12 vs 7-10; Matthew 26 v 53
There is No need for angels to materialize in our day or time frame because since the writings of the apostle John we have the completed Bible with God's holy spirit to guide and direct us.
- 2nd Timothy 3 vs 16,17

 

[savagewind]

Please post which Scripture referring to our day or time frame [ Rev. 1 v 10 ] dealing with materialized angels which you have in mind.

The protecting angelic armies of Revelation chapter 19 are Not visible.
At 2nd Kings 6 vs 15-17 the protecting angels were Not materialized ones.
Psalm 91 is about the promise of spiritual angelic protection from spiritual dangers
- Psalm 91 v 11
Are the angels visible ones at the soon coming ' time of separation' on earth of Matthew 25 vs 31-33, or rather the invisible angels helping maneuver matters to remove the wicked from earth - Matthew 13 vs 41,49. See also invisible angels helping the invisible archangel Michael at Rev. 12 vs 7-10; Matthew 26 v 53
There is No need for angels to materialize in our day or time frame because since the writings of the apostle John we have the completed Bible with God's holy spirit to guide and direct us.
- 2nd Timothy 3 vs 16,17

What then is the meaning of Hebrews 13:2?

13 Let your brotherly love continue.2 Do not forget hospitality,for through it some unknowingly entertained angels.3 Keep in mind those in prison, as though you were imprisoned with them, and those being mistreated, since you yourselves also are in the body.4 Let marriage be honorable among all, and let the marriage bed be without defilement, for God will judge sexually immoral people and adulterers.5 Let your way of life be free of the love of money, while you are content with the present things. For he has said: “I will never leave you, and I will never abandon you.”6 So that we may be of good courage and say: “Jehovah is my helper; I will not be afraid. What can man do to me?”

Why does the writer imply we might have opportunity to entertain angels?

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Whether the season is Pagan or not doesn't really matter,

it's a good time to see people and share their company and 'spirit'.
Now the 'spirit' is pretty important here also, lot's of 'spirits' !
And with that....good 'spirits' to you if I miss your writings.
It was a good read, and the seasons best to you and yours.
'mud

But does it matter according to 1st Corinthians 10:20,21; 2nd Corinthians 6:14-17 ?

....what the nations sacrifice, they sacrifice to demons and Not to God...You can Not be drinking the cup of the LORD [YHWH] and the cup of demons; you cannot be partakers of the LORD's [ YHWH ] table and the table of demons.....

Do Not become unevenly yoked with unbelievers......for what harmony is there between Christ and Belial? Or what does a believer share in common with an unbeliever? ......

 

[savagewind]

Yoked obviously means WORK. It is wrong to use 2 Cor 6:17-17 to prove sharing company with people who do not believe the same thing is wrong.

Mark 2:15 Later he was dining in his house, and many tax collectors and sinners were dining with Jesus and his disciples, for there were many of them who were following him.16 But when the scribes of the Pharisees saw that he was eating with the sinners and tax collectors, they began saying to his disciples: “Does he eat with tax collectors and sinners?”17 On hearing this, Jesus said to them: “Those who are strong do not need a physician, but those who are ill do. I came to call, not righteous people, but sinners.”

 

[sincerly]

Why would I discount his resurrection? It is his death and resurrection, and his subsequent paying of our ransom to his Father that gives us the OPPORTUNITY for forgiveness of our sins, and therefore, future righteousness. His death alone does not give us everlasting life or forgiveness. His sacrifice is equal to what Adam lost when God condemned him to death for sinning and being the very first religious proselyte under Eve, at Satan's hand. Satan introduced religion to the world in the garden in Eden, and it's been Satan's greatest tool in misleading mankind ever since. Satan's second most effective tool has been mistranslated Bibles. Third on the list is peer pressure.

I don't "discount" Jesus' birth, but as he said about it, it's insignificant. His death, as he told the first of the 144,000, the very first members of the Christian congregation (the apostles and some of the disciples of Jesus) is to be memorialized annually on the anniversary of his murder. It is that murder that gives us hope of living forever in a paradise Earth. It's a shame that religions all teach all lies, and don't tell these things. They don't teach God's word, they teach man's word.

Where is that verse that is interpolated to mean that the birth of Jesus is "insignificant"??
According to scriptures as shown before, Your JW.org is a "religion".
As I recently posted, there are areas where that Organization goes contrary to the Decalogue. Not just saying/teaching that one should not celebrate/"do" birthdays.
"Future righteousness"?? One has to have that right relationship to the Creator GOD before one's death or HIS Coming.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

What then is the meaning of Hebrews 13:2?

13 Let your brotherly love continue.2 Do not forget hospitality,for through it some unknowingly entertained angels.3 Keep in mind those in prison, as though you were imprisoned with them, and those being mistreated, since you yourselves also are in the body.4 Let marriage be honorable among all, and let the marriage bed be without defilement, for God will judge sexually immoral people and adulterers.5 Let your way of life be free of the love of money, while you are content with the present things. For he has said: “I will never leave you, and I will never abandon you.”6 So that we may be of good courage and say: “Jehovah is my helper; I will not be afraid. What can man do to me?”
Why does the writer imply we might have opportunity to entertain angels?

' unknowingly ' of course implies without knowing. In past Bible history the materialized angels appeared in human form, but please notice for our day [ Matthew 25 v 31; 16 v 27; 13 v 49 ] starting at Matthew 25 v 35. The 'sheep' do Not know they ' entertained ', so to speak, angelic creation. The ' ingathering', so to speak, of the ' sheep ' have No materialized angelic involvement, but the flying ' mid-heaven angels ' [ mid-air/ over our heads ] support that work - Rev. 14 v 6

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Yoked obviously means WORK. It is wrong to use 2 Cor 6:17-17 to prove sharing company with people who do not believe the same thing is wrong.
Mark 2:15 Later he was dining in his house, and many tax collectors and sinners were dining with Jesus and his disciples, for there were many of them who were following him.16 But when the scribes of the Pharisees saw that he was eating with the sinners and tax collectors, they began saying to his disciples: “Does he eat with tax collectors and sinners?”17 On hearing this, Jesus said to them: “Those who are strong do not need a physician, but those who are ill do. I came to call, not righteous people, but sinners.”

How does just having dinner with someone connect to a non-biblical celebration.
Jesus was Not celebrating the Saturnalia, but just an everyday meal.
How did Jesus' apostles celebrate Jesus' birth or the Saturnalia, they didn't !

 

[savagewind]

' unknowingly ' of course implies without knowing. In past Bible history the materialized angels appeared in human form, but please notice for our day [ Matthew 25 v 31; 16 v 27; 13 v 49 ] starting at Matthew 25 v 35. The 'sheep' do Not know they ' entertained ', so to speak, angelic creation. The ' ingathering', so to speak, of the ' sheep ' have No materialized angelic involvement, but the flying ' mid-heaven angels ' [ mid-air/ over our heads ] support that work - Rev. 14 v 6

Matthew 25 is about doing good to the least one of Christ's family. His family of Earth people. What is the news that Matthew 25 is now about angelic creation?

…34Looking about at those who were sitting around Him, He said, "Behold My mother and My brothers! 35"For whoever does the will of God, he is My brother and sister and mother." EARTHLINGS 'human'. Haha

 

[savagewind]

How does just having dinner with someone connect to a non-biblical celebration.
Jesus was Not celebrating the Saturnalia, but just an everyday meal.
How did Jesus' apostles celebrate Jesus' birth or the Saturnalia, they didn't !

Wrong! You used the scripture to prove something then you changed the subject.

 

[Simplelogic]

This thread is getting weird. I'm not sure why this is such a long argument. Jeremiah 10 says DO NOT LEARN THE WAY OF THE HEATHEN. He then goes on to describe the very practice of sun god worship on the winter solstice (Dec 20-25).

Yet people think Jesus would like this compromise of adding his "birth" into a pagan tradition?? Jesus wasn't even born in Dec anyways.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Where is that verse that is interpolated to mean that the birth of Jesus is "insignificant"??

According to Luke 3 v 15 Jesus' birth was significant because those 1st-century people were in ' expectation' of Messiah's coming. Since the Jews did Not celebrate birthdays it was Not expectation of birth, but rather when the one born would become Messiah which took place at Jesus' baptism - Luke 3 vs 21,22

What are your thoughts about Ecclesiastes 7 v 1 B where it states the day of death is better than the day of one's birth ?

 

[savagewind]

Jeremiah 10:3-5 is obviously not about a decoration. Why would the writer write that it is carried and can't speak or walk? It is about idols.

 

[sincerly]

As Montgomery Ward, as he invented Santa Claus in the heyday of his department stores, as a way to get mothers to bring their children into the store. Saint means holy, and no man can tell heaven or God Almighty to make someone holy postmortem.

Mike, "saints" are people in the Hebrew and Greek who as GOD said, "Be holy"- they were called HIS people. The epistles were written to "the saints at".
Not "postmortem" . However, Our "santa claus" is certainly not real.---nor is he worshiped by believers in GOD.
Jesus Christ was/is real and had a birthday(specific day---not known)--assigned the day of December 25.

As Paul wrote---idols/false gods/are not to be worshiped. However, when one touches such knowing that they are nothing/not worthy of the worship given to GOD. That is no different in principle than "eating and drinking with publicans and sinners"
Being in the world, one can not help but "touch" the "unclean"---but one doesn't have to "worship" the secular world. One is "in the world", but one does not have to be "of the world". That's what Jesus prayed in John 17.