Is Baha'u'llah true or false Prophet?

[InvestigateTruth]

What is important is, Bahaullah says, when God wanted to appear on earth among mankind, He created the Person of Bahaullah, so, He manifests Himself, and speaks to humanity. In another words, Bahaullah does not choose to manifest God, but God, created Him, for this specific purpose, so He manifests Himself on the earth.

 

[CG Didymus]

I gave you simple answer. The Spirit of Baha, is Spirit of God, so, if you ask if Bahaullahs Spirit was God, my answer is a Yes. Bahaullah's physical body and individuality is not God.
It is like a Lamp. The Lamp and the light. The individuality of Bahaullah is like Lamp. The Light Manifested from the Lamp, is God. Just an analogy. But, when a Lamp is lighted, the light and the lamp are together and inseparable, so, is Bahaullah. Would He only consider himself with no light, it is no different, it is coarser than clay as He says. But since God who is the Light is manifested from Him, He proclaims that He is verily God, as He said in the Quote.

What is your true reality the physical or your spiritual self? How spiritual is your spiritual self? Can it perfectly reflect the light of God? Why is the physical self able to tarnish the reflection of God? Did God make the body defective and unable to perfectly reflect the light on purpose?

Now, how about the human being that took the title "Baha'u'llah". Was that physical body always perfectly reflecting the light of God? Since a lamp can be turned off, could the light of God ever be turned off the "lamp" that was called "Baha'u'llah"? When that physical body known to us as "Baha'u'llah" died and decayed, did the light of God stay within that decaying body or did it depart... was it ever in the physical body or just within the spiritual body?

Baha'is say that Abraham, Moses and Muhammad are manifestations... those special creations that can perfectly reflect the light of God. Do Jews think that way of Abraham and Moses? Do Muslims think that way of Muhammad? Because the problem for the Baha'is in defining them as "manifestations" is that even within the Bible, Abraham and Moses are shown to have human imperfections. I suspect the Muhammad had some flaws also that would show a very fallible and human side, and show that he was not a perfect, divine, "God-like" being. Which, would make them not so "perfectly" polished mirrors, yet God choose them?

And, if so, wouldn't that make them more comparable to the "prophets" that were very ordinary men, with flaws, but were still used by God to give prophetic messages to the people from time to time?

 

[CG Didymus]

Mark 10:18 would make it more complicated

"And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God."

Regards Tony

There seems to be a problem with your thread in the General Religious Debates. But, it's related to this thread, so I'll ask you my question here. The way we know if a person is a true prophet are that the things they predict come true. What are the main Messianic prophecies? And, have they come true?

One of the Baha'i "prophesies" that bothers me is about the "lessor" peace. In the 70's some Baha'is said it would happen by the year 2000. Others said that was not "official" but was based on "Pilgrim Notes".

So give me some prophesies. When will peace be established on Earth? And, if those prophesies come true, then Baha'u'llah is a true prophet. If not, then he's not.

 

[Muffled]

All religions teach the truth. But as time is passed, their message is forgotten, distorted, misinterpreted.

Bahais believe if Jesus had said, He is God, He surely spoke the truth:

"Were any of the all-embracing Manifestations of God to declare: “I am God!” He, verily, speaketh the truth, and no doubt attacheth thereto. For it hath been repeatedly demonstrated that through their Revelation, their attributes and names, the Revelation of God, His name and His attributes, are made manifest in the world. "
Bahahllah

The difference is, Bahais believe God has manifested Himself in many, including Jesus.

I believe the B man has the key: Attributes such as omniscience, omnipresence, omnipotence, righteousness, long suffering.

Jesus means God saves and Jesus came to be our Savior.

 

[Maya Kaath]

But had you read, Jesus did say, ( For it cannot be that a prophet perish outside of Jerusalem)
This pertains to all of God's prophets, that they will not die any where else but at Jerusalem. Even Christ Jesus himself died at Jerusalem, thereby fulfilling God's Prophets dieing at Jerusalem and no where else but at Jerusalem.

So what Jesus is signifying is that God's Prophets will not die no where else but at Jerusalem
For Christ Jesus himself died at Jerusalem to signify the Prophets of God's shall not die any where else but at Jerusalem.

Moses was a true Prophet of God, yes? He not only foretold the advent of Christ, but you may recall that he was singled out—like Christ—as One who saw the "form of God" and spoke to God face to face, rather than in dreams. Moses did not die in Jerusalem. He didn't even die in the Holy Land. The Prophet before Moses, Joseph, did not die in Jerusalem either. He died in Goshen, which was a part of Egypt ceded to the Hebrews. If some archaeologists who have weighed in on it are correct, Joseph was buried in Egypt in a crypt with His wife Tuya, though his burial style was after the Jewish/Hebrew tradition not Egyptian.

Christ gives many criteria (all spiritual) for judging a true prophet from a false one. They have nothing to do with physical location. As I studied the life and teachings of Baha'u'llah, I came to realize that many prophecies—from the books of Isaiah and Daniel to the synoptic Gospels to the Apocalypse of St. John—are eerily applicable to that life and those teachings. Read Isaiah's words about one the Lord would reveal—a man of sorrows, acquainted with grief. (Isaiah 52: 13-15, 53:1-12). I was told this referred to Jesus and in many ways apply to anyone who accepts the mantle of Prophethood. But they map far more closely to the life of Baha'u'llah, who died in the Holy Land, if not in Jerusalem, and who fulfilled prophecy by standing on the Mountain of the Lord (Carmel) and summoning the world to walk in the way of God. You might also read Christ's words about the Spirit of Truth ("another Advocate" who would come from the Father). Or the Revelation to St. John in which Christ promises to come "with a new name." (Revelation 3:12) and chapters of which lay out a spiritual map of the missions of Muhammad and the Bab (Baha'u'llah's Forerunner).

But, I digress, sorry. It's been over 45 years and I'm still agog at the sheer amount of prophetic bread crumbs. My point is that Christ explains how to tell true and false prophets apart by their behavior and the spiritual fruits of their work in the world. He also says that in the last days we will be judged by his word—the word of God. I take this to mean we will be judged by how well we keep it and live it. How much more so those who claim to be a divine Messenger.

So, it's on each of us to do the work and ask the questions: Do Baha'u'llah's teachings echo Christ's? Does the way he lived his life comport with that of Christ? Did he deserve the title he was given—"The Father of the Poor?" Did he live his words about forgiveness and love? Was he Christlike enough to forgive even his most inveterate enemies and betrayers? Did he exhort humanity to the same behavior?

In addition to his call to the essential unity of the human family, and of the Faith of God—by whatever name its Messenger bears—a primal principle of Baha'u'llah's Faith is the independent investigation of truth and reality. When I first heard of Baha'u'llah I just assumed he was a false prophet and I undertook to disprove him to myself and my friends. My mother, who likewise, hated Baha'u'llah for the love of Christ, also undertook that challenge, with the same result. I have been a Baha'i for almost 50 years, now. And the more I know—about Christ or about any of the divine Messengers, no matter where they were born or died, about scientific discovery and the way the Universe works—the deeper my faith grows.

 

[Maya Kaath]

There seems to be a problem with your thread in the General Religious Debates. But, it's related to this thread, so I'll ask you my question here. The way we know if a person is a true prophet are that the things they predict come true. What are the main Messianic prophecies? And, have they come true?

One of the Baha'i "prophesies" that bothers me is about the "lessor" peace. In the 70's some Baha'is said it would happen by the year 2000. Others said that was not "official" but was based on "Pilgrim Notes".

So give me some prophesies. When will peace be established on Earth? And, if those prophesies come true, then Baha'u'llah is a true prophet. If not, then he's not.

There is no timeline on the Lesser Peace. In the Baha'i writings it's clear that the timeline depends on us. How quickly do we begin to realize that we really are one family of equals, no matter what our point of origin, or skin color or what language we speak. How quickly do we rise to the prophetic words of Isaiah that we will beat our swords into plowshares and our spears into pruning hooks, stop learning and practicing war and, as Isaiah suggests, willing hear what God has to say?

What Baha'u'llah does say is that something will occur that will as he put it, "cause the limbs of mankind to quake" and that only then would the banner of unity be unfurled. He also wrote that "The well-being of mankind, its peace and security, are unattainable unless and until its unity is firmly established. This unity can never be achieved so long as the counsels which the Pen of the Most High hath revealed are suffered to pass unheeded." — Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah

The scientific confirmation of Baha'u'llah's assertion that we are one family came in the 1990s in the heart of the Human Genome Project, but while science can tell us that we are all members of one human family, I think it falls to faith to tell us what we should do about it, if we are to survive as a species.

Baha'u'llah made a series of prophecies regarding the world leaders through letters he wrote to them, beginning in the latter half of the 1800s in Adrianople where he was exiled. He called them to work toward bringing that spiritual reality into practice, to stop making war, seeking riches and coveting power. He told some of these leaders what lay in store for them if they failed to heed that call. There are books that follow the course of that, although you can certainly do the research yourself by comparing the letters Baha'u'llah wrote to the historical record. (The letters themselves are contained in the book The Summons of the Lord of Hosts, but if you want the prophecy and the fulfillment then The Prisoner and the Kings by Bill Sears is a quicker route....

Have fun stormin' the castle.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

People may judge for themselves. whether or not Baha'u'llah is a true or false Prophet.

On 9 May 1892, Bahá'u'lláh contracted a slight fever which grew steadily over the following days, abated, and then finally resulted in his death on 29 May 1892 (Dhu'l Qa'dah 2, 1309 AH). He was buried in the shrine located next to the Mansion of Bahjí.)
Bahá'u'lláh - Wikipedia
Wikipedia › wiki › Bahá'u'lláh

Baha'u'llah died at Acre in Israel, and was buried in the shrine located next to the Mansion of Bahji, which is located in Acre in Israel, which is about 200 miles away from Jerusalem.
Shrine of Bahá'u'lláh - Wikipedia
Wikipedia › wiki › Shrine_of_Bahá'u'lláh
The Shrine of Bahá'u'lláh, located in Bahjí near Acre, Israel, is the most holy ... It contains the remains of Bahá'u'lláh and is near the spot where he died in the Mansion of Bahjí.

This being about 200 miles away from Jerusalem.


Notice what Christ Jesus had to say about Jerusalem in the book of Luke 13:33--" Nevertheless I must walk to day, and to morrow, and the day following: for it cannot be that a prophet perish out of Jerusalem"
This meaning that no prophet shall die outside of Jerusalem.

Now as for Baha'u'llah dieing 200 miles away from Jerusalem, Christ Jesus thereby proving Baha'u'llah is a false prophet.

The Prophets of God, either died a natural death or was stone to death by people in Jerusalem.

But here we find Baha'u'llah, died On 9 May 1892, Bahá'u'lláh contracted a slight fever which grew steadily over the following days, abated, and then finally resulted in his death on 29 May 1892.

So it is that Baha'u'llah didn't die a natural death, as in dieing of old age, But by contracted a slight fever which grew steadily over the following days, which caused his death on May 29,1892.

But yet Christ Jesus has said in Luke 13:34--"Nevertheless I must walk to day, and to morrow, and the day following: for it cannot be that a prophet perish out of Jerusalem.

34-- "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not"

So we find the Prophets of Gods died at Jerusalem, at the hands of the people in Jerusalem or by a natural death of old age.

Where as Baha'u'llah died by a fever that took his life 200 miles outside of Jerusalem.

So Baha'u'llah didn't die by a natural death of old age or by the hands of people in Jerusalem, But by a fever. As there were no prophets of Gods that ever died by any diseases.

But by a natural death of old age or at the hands of people in Jerusalem.

Which again proves Baha'u'llah as a false prophet.

For Christ Jesus did say in Luke 13:33--"Nevertheless I must walk to day, and to morrow, and the day following: for it cannot be that a prophet perish out of Jerusalem"

That being outside of Jerusalem, which puts Baha'u'llah dieing 200 miles away from Jerusalem as a false prophet.

Where did Moses disappear?
What about Abraham?

 

[danieldemol]

There is no timeline on the Lesser Peace...

Welcome back to RF
Abdu'l-Baha said the political unity of the nations would be achieved by the twentieth century. After the fact attempts at defining the lesser peace as something different to that just look like attempts at post-hoc rationalisation of failed prophecy to me.

 

[CG Didymus]

I have been a Baha'i for almost 50 years, now.

How quickly do we begin to realize that we really are one family of equals

I'm glad someone resurrected this thread. I do believe the Baha'i Faith is worth looking into. But, unfortunately, Baha'is here on the forum have been better at pushing people away and being the cause of division. You know Born-again Christians, Atheists, and others are going to disagree with you. How do Baha'is handle that? By arguing and telling them how wrong they are? That's not going to lead to peace and understanding.

Then, you've been a Baha'i 50 years... and are you still in San Jose? During that time how has the Baha'i family grown in your city? Have all grown closer? How many new Baha'is in your city have there been in those fifty years? Do all come to feast and participate? Or have some fallen away. Have some become inactive? Is the Baha'i Faith actually working? Are the Baha'is in your city living like one loving, happy family? Has your LSA been able to resolve the problems in your city in a way to make your Baha'i family grow in the knowledge and love of God?

 

[Muffled]

Welcome back to RF
Abdu'l-Baha said the political unity of the nations would be achieved by the twentieth century. After the fact attempts at defining the lesser peace as something different to that just look like attempts at post-hoc rationalisation of failed prophecy to me.

I believe the United Nations gives us a bit of that. Obviously the nations are not united on everything.

 

[Trailblazer]

Notice what Christ Jesus had to say about Jerusalem in the book of Luke 13:33--" Nevertheless I must walk to day, and to morrow, and the day following: for it cannot be that a prophet perish out of Jerusalem"
This meaning that no prophet shall die outside of Jerusalem.

Now as for Baha'u'llah dieing 200 miles away from Jerusalem, Christ Jesus thereby proving Baha'u'llah is a false prophet.

The Prophets of God, either died a natural death or was stone to death by people in Jerusalem.

But here we find Baha'u'llah, died On 9 May 1892, Bahá'u'lláh contracted a slight fever which grew steadily over the following days, abated, and then finally resulted in his death on 29 May 1892.

I see that someone resurrected this thread that is now almost 5 years old, so I am going to say something...

I have never heard anything this absurd.... Baha'u'llah must be a false prophet because He did not die in Jerusalem.
This is a sterling example of a Christian who completely misinterpreted a Bible verse by taking it totally out of context.
Let's look at Luke 13 in context to see what Jesus meant.

Luke 13 KJV​

​

27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.​

28 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.​

29 And they shall come from the east, and from the west, and from the north, and from the south, and shall sit down in the kingdom of God.​

30 And, behold, there are last which shall be first, and there are first which shall be last.​

31 The same day there came certain of the Pharisees, saying unto him, Get thee out, and depart hence: for Herod will kill thee.​

32 And he said unto them, Go ye, and tell that fox, Behold, I cast out devils, and I do cures to day and to morrow, and the third day I shall be perfected.​

33 Nevertheless I must walk to day, and to morrow, and the day following: for it cannot be that a prophet perish out of Jerusalem.​

34 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not!​

Jesus was referring to Himself in Luke13:33. He was saying that that He would not die outside of Jerusalem. He was not saying that no prophet ever died outside of Jerusalem.

@Faithofchristian said: "The Prophets of God, either died a natural death or was stone to death by people in Jerusalem."

Is that true of all the Prophets of God? I think not.

The Prophet Muhammad died in Medina, located in present-day Saudi Arabia.

Dead prophets​

​

At least two other prophets died outside of Jerusalem, besides the example you offer.​

1. Moses never made it to the promised land, so he obviously died "outside of Jerusalem."
2. Jeremiah was released by the Babylonians and reportedly left for Mizpah, and thence to Egypt. As there is no record of his death, nor of his return, it is most likely that he died in Egypt.

Conclusion​

​

Jesus is speaking of himself in the third person. He knows that it is God's will that he die in Jerusalem.​

​

Which prophets died outside Jerusalem?​

 

[CG Didymus]

Welcome back to RF
Abdu'l-Baha said the political unity of the nations would be achieved by the twentieth century. After the fact attempts at defining the lesser peace as something different to that just look like attempts at post-hoc rationalisation of failed prophecy to me.

I've asked Baha'is if there is a prophecy that says the manifestation, or "Messiah", will come, give his message, die, and then, because the people of the world essentially rejected him, that the world would go into turmoil, then, before we all kill ourselves and destroy the Earth, a "lesser" peace would be established, then, someday, a true and lasting peace under God's laws will be established.

All I've seen is the Messiah comes and conquers the evil doers and establishes God's kingdom.

But with my questions to the Baha'is about how well their communities are working, which I don't think they are working all that great, how is the Baha'i proposals on how to run a community of people going to even work on a larger scale? I've seen division between the LSA and the other members of the community. I've seen failures of "mass-teaching" projects. And I've known many Baha'is that don't participate at all.

So, I wonder, how are nine guys at the world level going to run everything? How are nine people going to run a nation or a city? And then... who's going to enforce the Baha'i laws?

Have you had or seen any encouraging signs that the Baha'i Faith can work?

 

[Trailblazer]

All I've seen is the Messiah comes and conquers the evil doers and establishes God's kingdom.

According to whom? I'd like to see any Bible verses that support this belief so I can explain how they have been misinterpreted.

But with my questions to the Baha'is about how well their communities are working, which I don't think they are working all that great, how is the Baha'i proposals on how to run a community of people going to even work on a larger scale? I've seen division between the LSA and the other members of the community. I've seen failures of "mass-teaching" projects. And I've known many Baha'is that don't participate at all.

After the demise of my husband last year I decided I was too isolated and I need a sense of belonging and community, so I decided to start connecting with the Baha'is in my community. Now I am attending all the Feasts and giving to the local Fund, and attending other social functions that I am interested in, which I was not doing for many years. What I have seen is that there are only certain Baha'is in the community who regularly participate, and there are many inactive Baha'is who do not participate at all. There is no way of knowing why they do not participate and it is not my business. I had a reason for not participating for many, many years so I am sure they have their reasons.

If I was to base my belief in Baha'u'llah upon the Baha'is and what they are doing I could easily lose my faith, but I have never based my beliefs upon what the Baha'is are doing. Humans are fallible so they don't always live up to the ideals. The Baha'is I know are struggling to keep the community going and they are doing what an LSA is responsible to do. At this time, that is as much as we can expect. I believe in the future they will do more, but the future is not here yet.

So, I wonder, how are nine guys at the world level going to run everything? How are nine people going to run a nation or a city? And then... who's going to enforce the Baha'i laws?

As I have told you in the past, I don't see the usefulness of wondering what is going to happen with the Baha'i Faith in the future, because nobody knows.

 

[Pete in Panama]

... don't see the usefulness of wondering what is going to happen with the Baha'i Faith in the future, because nobody knows.

--and it doesn't matter. What matters is that God is good and must be obeyed.

Perhaps a source of miscommunication w/ CG Didymus emerges with the fact that he wants to "prove" that Baha'u'llah is a false prophet, while we want to have everyone agree that the Christ is not only a true prophet but He must be heard and obeyed. This is why it was necessary for you to urge CG Didymus to recheck his scriptures.

If we could all study Christ then any problems w/ Baha'u'llah would be resolved.

 

[Trailblazer]

Perhaps a source of miscommunication w/ CG Didymus emerges with the fact that he wants to "prove" that Baha'u'llah is a false prophet, while we want to have everyone agree that the Christ is not only a true prophet but He must be heard and obeyed. This is why it was necessary for you to urge CG Didymus to recheck his scriptures.

No, I think that @CG Didymus wants to know if Baha'u'llah is a true prophet but he is not convinced.
He has checked the scriptures backwards and forwards, but scriptures can be interpreted in various ways, which is what causes so many divergent beliefs.

If we could all study Christ then any problems w/ Baha'u'llah would be resolved.

I don't think the problems with Baha'u'llah will be resolved by studying what Christ said in the New Testament since everyone interprets these verses differently. It could only be resolved if people discovered the true meaning of what Christ said.

 

[lukethethird]

Is Baha'u'llah true or false Prophet?​

In my humble opinion Baha'u'llah is dumb and his followers are dumber, but not to single them out, my sentiments extend to all religious leaders and followers.

“There’s simply no polite way to tell people they’ve dedicated their lives to an illusion.”​

― Daniel Dennett

 

[Trailblazer]

“There’s simply no polite way to tell people they’ve dedicated their lives to an illusion.”
― Daniel Dennett

Like he knows what is an illusion...
Can't get much more arrogant than that.

 

[CG Didymus]

--and it doesn't matter. What matters is that God is good and must be obeyed.

Perhaps a source of miscommunication w/ CG Didymus emerges with the fact that he wants to "prove" that Baha'u'llah is a false prophet, while we want to have everyone agree that the Christ is not only a true prophet but He must be heard and obeyed. This is why it was necessary for you to urge CG Didymus to recheck his scriptures.

If we could all study Christ then any problems w/ Baha'u'llah would be resolved.

What I'm trying to "prove" or show, is that there are good reasons to doubt and question the Baha'i Faith, Islam, Christianity and any other religion that claims things that can't be proven. Even Baha'is doubt and question many doctrines of most all of the major sects of Christianity. I question how Christians and Baha'is can believe Jesus was born of a virgin based on one out of context verse in Isaiah.

But, for some, their religion has transformed their lives. Yet, they all believe in slightly different to very different things about God, Gods, and those who claimed to speak for the Gods. Which, to me, kind of indicates that it is more important that a person believes rather than what is believed. I think even a religious movement that most of us could agree is a cult and the founder is a fraud, even they have people whose lives have been changed for the good.

Believe Baha'u'llah is sent from God and live a life of humility and kindness and that's great. But a born-again Christian that believes Jesus is God and that Satan and hell are real... that person can also live a life of kindness and love. But that person, according to Baha'i beliefs, is believing in false doctrines.

The problem many of us non-believers have with some religions is the proselytizing/teaching. And then the other problem, we see that most of those people don't live up to the teachings of their religion and live a life of love, kindness and that good stuff.

 

[lukethethird]

Like he knows what is an illusion...
Can't get much more arrogant than that.

Do you not know what is an illusion?

 

[Trailblazer]

Do you not know what is an illusion?

I know what isn't.