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Jesus Failed Right?

firedragon

Veteran Member
Ok, then to keep it simple, you believe 100% Jesus will return to finish his mission?
Irrelevant. Because for the third time I say "I AM TAKING A METHODOLOGICAL APPROACH".

Oh, wait, you said you didn't. So how could Jesus actually finish his mission in any case?
Because for the fourth time I say "I AM TAKING A METHODOLOGICAL APPROACH".

Speaking of assumptions, you made numerous assumptions of my methodology instead of asking. However that's what I've been doing is asking but you never seem to get around to actually answering.
Sorry none of your argument makes any sense and you seem unable to fix that, so as you say,
Okay. So you did not understand what a methodological approach means. You should have asked. As I said, it will not affect your life. This is just an anonymous forum.

Anyway, a methodological approach means to lose your personal beliefs to research a topic or to address a topic and for that particular subject approach it as the adherent of a particular worldview. For example, for this topic in response to your OP I am gonna be a Christian although outside this topic I am a Muslim.

This is the same as methodological naturalism where any God believing scientist approaches the scientific method leaving God and his theology aside. That's a methodological approach.

If you had some humility, you would have done some research or at least asked.

Cheers.
 

Balthazzar

N. Germanic Descent
Jesus spent 3 years trying to convert people right. Only ended up with twelve disciples. One of whom denied him, Matt. 26:69-75. One who betrayed him, Matt. 26:15.

While on the cross he was derided and mocked. Matthew 27:39–44.

Jesus said he came for the Jews, Matthew 15:24. Who he was rejected by.

It was Paul who went to the gentiles and started the Christian movement.

All of the miracles he did, healing people, bringing people back from the dead, feeding thousands with 5 loafs of bread and 2 fish. You'd think he'd have gotten more of a following among the people he claimed he came for.

Christians have promoted the idea that we should be more like Jesus? He was not a very good teacher/preacher to his chosen audience. Was it part of God's plan for Jesus to fail?

No more than any one else and maybe less than most, but ... He did turn a few away with his talk of eating flesh and drinking blood. He was mocked on the cross., and here's his biggest failure ... He lived. He was supposed to die, but he didn't. They put him in his catacomb, counted him as dead, but the guy didn't die. No! He ended up walking around a few days later, although somewhat unrecognizable due to the beating he took. He was ashamed of the beat down, the mockery, and I'm pretty sure he felt like everyone forsake him, including his father. Failure? I guess that's in the eyes of those who hear about his struggle. At least he was successful at teaching the importance of truth. We're at fault for not listening, but who can blame us? Look at what happened to him.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
Jesus Failed Right?

No, not at all, by far (Jesus)Yeshua- the truthful Israelite Messiah ( who was neither a Zealot, nor he belonged to the Zionism people nor to the Judaism people) was most successful Israelite Messenger/Prophet as was Jonah before him, this he himself claimed even as per the Pauline NT- Bible , please, right?

Regards
I believe if one measure success in numbers, then millions of adherents and bibles sold should suffice.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
The problem is, you don't know what his mission exactly was. So only God would know if he failed or succeeded in his mission.
I believe the angel Gabriel stated His mission.
(Matt 1:21 [ESV2011])
She will bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus, for he will save his people from their sins.”
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
I don't believe in it. I was only arguing against this point of the OP from a Christian perspective. I don't believe Jesus is coming back personally.
You mean you personally don't believe it, or that you don't think he personally will be coming back? From the way things look in the world, yes, I believe the prophecy of his return, although he personally is unseen, is being fulfilled.
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
You mean you personally don't believe it, or that you don't think he personally will be coming back? From the way things look in the world, yes, I believe the prophecy of his return, although he personally is unseen, is being fulfilled.
Only because the prophecy has been fulfilled with the advent of the Second Coming 1835-1908 please, right?

Regards
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Only because the prophecy has been fulfilled with the advent of the Second Coming 1835-1908 please, right?

Regards
OK, I see what you're saying in part. These early groups apparently believed that Christ would return visibly. They were mistaken.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
OK, I see what you're saying in part. These early groups apparently believed that Christ would return visibly. They were mistaken.
They were mistaken if they thought Jesus would return at all because Jesus never promised to return to earth, not once in the New Testament.
Jesus said His work was finished here and He was no more in the world. That means that the return of Christ has to be another Person.

John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

John 16:10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more.

John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
They were mistaken if they thought Jesus would return at all because Jesus never promised to return to earth, not once in the New Testament.
Jesus said His work was finished here and He was no more in the world. That means that the return of Christ has to be another Person.

John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

John 16:10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more.

John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
He finished his work as a human born to a virgin (maiden).
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Jesus never said that he had any other work to do. That is idea coming from Christians, not from the Bible.
He said he finished the work his Father gave him to do. That was as a human. On the earth. He isn't sitting around watching TV shows.
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
paarsurrey said:
Only because the prophecy has been fulfilled with the advent of the Second Coming 1835-1908 please, right?

Regards
OK, I see what you're saying in part. These early groups apparently believed that Christ would return visibly. They were mistaken.
Yeshua was a very successful person as when he :
  1. after the event of Cross, in which he got saved miraculously as he was delivered from the Cross alive
  2. as he had already told that he was sent to the Israelites only
  3. so when he went secretly out of Judea/Roman lands from Galilee, and late his Mother-Mary also joined him
  4. wherever Yeshua went to meet the 10 lost tribes of Israel, they accepted as a truthful Messiah/Messenger/Prophet of G-d, please, right?
Why are the Pauline-Christianity people inimical (like Saul of Tarsus aka Paul) to Yeshua that they don't accept it, right, please?

Regards
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
paarsurrey said:
Only because the prophecy has been fulfilled with the advent of the Second Coming 1835-1908 please, right?

Regards

Yeshua was a very successful person as when he :
  1. after the event of Cross, in which he got saved miraculously as he was delivered from the Cross alive
  2. as he had already told that he was sent to the Israelites only
  3. so when he went secretly out of Judea/Roman lands from Galilee, and late his Mother-Mary also joined him
  4. wherever Yeshua went to meet the 10 lost tribes of Israel, they accepted as a truthful Messiah/Messenger/Prophet of G-d, please, right?
Why are the Pauline-Christianity people inimical (like Saul of Tarsus aka Paul) to Yeshua that they don't accept it, right, please?

Regards
I did some research on the point you raised about the erroneous teaching that Jesus would return in the flesh, Mennonites and other groups among them. Of course he did not.
The second coming, or return of Christ, would not be in physical form. He said at Matthew 24, "37As it was in the days of Noah, so will it be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark. 39And they were oblivious, until the flood came and swept them all away. So will it be at the coming of the Son of Man. 40Two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left. 41Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and the other left."

What this suggests to me is that many would take no notice of his "coming."

The apostle Peter warned Christians: "8Beloved, do not let this one thing escape your notice: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. 9The Lord is not slow in keeping His promise as some understand slowness, but is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish but everyone to come to repentance."

How do you feel about that?
 

wellwisher

Well-Known Member
Jesus spent 3 years trying to convert people right. Only ended up with twelve disciples. One of whom denied him, Matt. 26:69-75. One who betrayed him, Matt. 26:15.

While on the cross he was derided and mocked. Matthew 27:39–44.

Jesus said he came for the Jews, Matthew 15:24. Who he was rejected by.

It was Paul who went to the gentiles and started the Christian movement.

All of the miracles he did, healing people, bringing people back from the dead, feeding thousands with 5 loafs of bread and 2 fish. You'd think he'd have gotten more of a following among the people he claimed he came for.

Christians have promoted the idea that we should be more like Jesus? He was not a very good teacher/preacher to his chosen audience. Was it part of God's plan for Jesus to fail?
You need to look longer term. After you dig the earth and plant seeds nothing seems to happen, until the seeds finally sprout, the it takes time to to grow and then finally it bears fruit.

For example, after a shaky start, Christianity would go on to become the official religion of Rome in the 4th century, and inherit the Last Great empire of the Western Ancient World; Holy Roman Empire. In the modern era, the Christian nations of that Holy Empire in Europe, such as Great Britain, Spain, France, Portugal, Denmark, Germany, Russia, would own the world; combined world empire. They would even inherit the Western Hemisphere; Americas, with all that open pristine land and natural resources. It was being saved.

The message of Jesus was way ahead of his time. At took time to develop until the fruits start to appear. Paul worked the transitional time trying to teach people to understand how law could be used by crooks for the benefits of crooks; Trump Trial in NYC.

This is part of the reason a Third Testament should be written; Works of the Spirit, connected to the Holy Spirit and the inspired rise of Christianity, over the last 2000 years. We can documents all the fruit and the world wide impact, in spite of the Atheist mirror religion within, that constantly tried to undermine the works of the Spirit.

The Spanish Inquisition was based on the Atheism Influence; money and power, and not the teachings of Jesus; forgiveness of sins. The dark Atheist side of Christianity; mirror religion, should be part of the full story, so Atheism can get the credit it deserves, for the dark mirror side of the Christianity. Hitler was part of that dark side executing Jews, Catholics and Gypsies instead of loving his neighbor. In the Atheist mirror religion is a waste of time, when hate and force is faster and better serves the mirror.

Note: Atheism is defined by what it is not, so if Christian says love they need to say hate. If Christianity says forgive that say condemn. My guess is this group was successful in keeping Christianity down for the first few centuries. The merger with Rome would make a more balanced Christian; Christian/Pagan Composite, so there was a truce for 1000 years until 1400AD.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
He said he finished the work his Father gave him to do. That was as a human. On the earth. He isn't sitting around watching TV shows.
What other work would Jesus have other than the work the Father gave Him to do?
What do you mean, as a human? What else would Jesus be, a God?
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
What other work would Jesus have other than the work the Father gave Him to do?
What do you mean, as a human? What else would Jesus be, a God?
Here is what Jesus also said in the book of Matthew, chapter 28 when he approached his disciples after his resurrection:
"Jesus approached and spoke to them, saying: “All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth. 19 Go, therefore, and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you. And look! I am with you all the days until the conclusion of the system of things.”
So "all authority" has been given him in heaven and on the earth.
 
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