Why Jews don't believe in Jesus

[Betho_br]

Here are the criteria for identifying the true Messiah expected by the Jews:



1. Gathering of the Israelites: The Messiah must gather all Israelites back to the land of Israel.

- Citation: Isaiah 43:5-6: "Fear not, for I am with you; I will bring your descendants from the east, and gather you from the west. I will say to the north, 'Give them up!' and to the south, 'Do not keep them back! Bring My sons from afar, and My daughters from the ends of the earth.'"



2. Universal Peace: The Messiah must bring universal peace.

- Citation: Isaiah 2:1-5: "The word that Isaiah the son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem. Now it shall come to pass in the latter days that the mountain of the Lord's house shall be established on the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow to it. Many people shall come and say, 'Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, to the house of the God of Jacob; He will teach us His ways, and we shall walk in His paths.'"



3. Fulfillment of Prophecies: The Messiah must fulfill all messianic prophecies described in the Hebrew Scriptures.

- Citation: Isaiah 2:3: "Many people shall come and say, 'Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, to the house of the God of Jacob; He will teach us His ways, and we shall walk in His paths; for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem.'"



4. Universal Knowledge of God: The Messiah must promote a universal knowledge of God.

- Citation: Zechariah 14:9: "And the Lord shall be King over all the earth. In that day it shall be—'The Lord is one,' and His name one."



5. Establishment of the Kingdom of God: The Messiah must establish the Kingdom of God on earth.

- Citation: Isaiah 2:2: "Now it shall come to pass in the latter days that the mountain of the Lord's house shall be established on the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow to it."



6. No Death and Resurrection: The Messiah should not die and resurrect.

- Citation: While there is no specific citation mentioned, the idea is that the Hebrew tradition does not foresee the Messiah dying and returning, contrasting with the Christian narrative about Jesus.



7. Action and Leadership: The Messiah must be an active leader who guides the people of Israel and the nations toward God.

- Citation: Isaiah 11:1-2: "There shall come forth a Rod from the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots. The Spirit of the Lord shall rest upon Him, the Spirit of wisdom and understanding, the Spirit of counsel and might, the Spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the Lord."

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Does that make a difference to you? Or -- why are you asking?

Yes, it matters. It determines whether you are a Jew or not.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Yes, it matters. It determines whether you are a Jew or not.

Jew by name, or Jew by faith??

 

[muhammad_isa]

2. Universal Peace: The Messiah must bring universal peace.

- Citation: Isaiah 2:1-5: "The word that Isaiah the son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem. Now it shall come to pass in the latter days that the mountain of the Lord's house shall be established on the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow to it. Many people shall come and say, 'Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, to the house of the God of Jacob; He will teach us His ways, and we shall walk in His paths.'"

..and how can the Messiah bring peace to a people who are steeped in arrogance, and plot
to kill him?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

The election plays little role in policy.

Overturning Roe v Wade is "little"?

 

[Muffled]

Jewish Christian is an oxymoron.

I believe that concept is false. No doubt it is wishful thinking.

 

[Muffled]

..and how can the Messiah bring peace to a people who are steeped in arrogance, and plot
to kill him?

I believe as God He can erase the memory of evil.

 

[Muffled]

Overturning Roe v Wade is "little"?

I don't believe it was reversed. I just see the court making allowances for the fact that the country is divided on the issue and it should not be one side mandating a disgusting law on the other side. This will still happen at the state level but no longer at the national level.

 

[muhammad_isa]

I believe as God He can erase the memory of evil.

What does that mean? You mean the memory I have today will be erased by tomorrow?

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Jew by name, or Jew by faith??

How many times do we need to tell you this before you stop asking us to clarify.

A Jew is a Jew is a Jew. There are not two kinds of Jews. Only one. A Jew is anyone who is born of a Jewish mom (by far the most common) or (in rare cases) someone who is adopted into the People of Israel via a formal conversion. All Jews are simply Jews, regardless of whether they are born Jews or converts. IOW born Jews and convert Jews are the same kind of Jews. They are not more or less Jewish based on their level of religious observance. Some Jews practice Judaism, other Jews do not. In both cases they are equally Jewish. There is no such thing as saying someone born of a Jewish mom who is not religious is somehow not a Jew.

Can you make it a point to try and remember this?

So going back to the earlier question of why it matters whether @YoursTrue is born of a Jewish mom, it is because (since we already know he is not a convert) it determines whether or not he is a Jew.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Some Jews practice Judaism, other Jews do not..

You can say that about anyone.
Some Muslims practice Islam, others do not etc.

So going back to the earlier question of why it matters whether @YoursTrue is born of a Jewish mom, it is because (since we already know he is not a convert) it determines whether or not he is a Jew.

..so a person who was born of a Jewish mother and becomes a Muslim, is still a Jew?

..not by faith, they're not .. though they still believe in the same G-d.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

You can say that about anyone.
Some Muslims practice Islam, others do not etc.

A Muslim is anyone who says "There is no god but Allah, and Muhammad is his prophet." If such a person were to go out drinking every Friday night, I would still never presume to say they're not Muslim.

..so a person who was born of a Jewish mother and becomes a Muslim, is still a Jew?

Yes. An apostate, certainly, but still a Jew. A Jew cannot be un-Jewed.

..not by faith, they're not .. though they still believe in the same G-d.

Faith does not determine who is a Jew. We aren't talking about a religious group. We are talking about a tribal people.

How is it that you are still asking these questions, when you have received the answers many many times? Honestly, by now you should have all this memorized.

 

[muhammad_isa]

How is it that you are still asking these questions.. ?

I'm not asking a question .. I'm explaining to you my views.
One can be Christian by birth, but not by faith.
The same goes for Jews etc.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

I'm not asking a question .. I'm explaining to you my views.
One can be Christian by birth, but not by faith.
The same goes for Jews etc.

You quite specifically asked a question:
"..so a person who was born of a Jewish mother and becomes a Muslim, is still a Jew? "

Christians are a religious group. Jews are an ethnicity. You need to stop making terrible analogies.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Christians are a religious group. Jews are an ethnicity..

A race, then .. in your opinion.

..so G-d is a racist?

 

[Spice]

A race, then .. in your opinion.

..so G-d is a racist?

For you @IndigoChild5559 LOL

 

[IndigoChild5559]

A race, then .. in your opinion.

Race? No. Ethnicity? Yes.

Race is the idea that there are separate and distinct groups of human beings based on superficial biological features. In reality, race does not actually exist. For example, there is no dividing line for when "black" skin becomes "white" skin.

Ethnicity refers to a category of people who identify with each other based on shared social, cultural, or national experiences. Ethnic groups are often (but not always) characterized by several factors, including common ancestry, cultural traits such as language, religion, customs, and social norms, geographical origin, shared history, and sense of belonging. They are not based on biology. Tribal peoples such as the Lakota, Zulu, or Jews are ethnicities.

You ask, Is God a racist?

 

[muhammad_isa]

In reality, race does not actually exist..

That's a bit pedantic .. so there is no such thing as racism?

Ethnicity refers to a category of people who identify with each other based on shared social, cultural, or national experiences.

Call it what you like .. but most people understand the meaning of 'a racist'.

You ask, Is God a racist?

Well, yes .. why did G-d favor the 'children of Israel' ?
..because they were being oppressed by Pharaoh.
G-d is the Fairest of All Judges.

..so G-d does not favor people due to their ethnicity, which is what a lot of people believe.
i.e. "chosen people" bla bla .. only Christians go to heaven .. and what not

 

[Ehav4Ever]

..so a person who was born of a Jewish mother and becomes a Muslim, is still a Jew?

Within the Torah's perspective, ancestrally a person who is born of a Jewish mother is a Jew. That is based on things that were defined in the Oral Torah before the written Torah was written, enfcorced in ancient Jewish society by way of the Mosaic Courts, and confirmed by the Mosaic Court of Ezra during the return of Yehudi / Judean exiles from Babylon.

This is because the ancestral side of it has a national / citzenship element to it, as well as social / communal when the national aspect is not established. (The father's side of course provides the tribal connection within said nation.) In othere words, it is considered to be the national social responsibility for all Torah based Jewish parents to teach their children Torah, thus when this doesn't happen, for whatever reason, the children are still a part of the nation / social element because they were born into it. See my response below for the rest of the story.

..not by faith, they're not .. though they still believe in the same G-d.

In ancient Hebrew, the concept of faith that you are describing doesn't exist in the Torah. The word in Hebrew, which modernly is used to express faith (אמונה) doesn't mean what faith normally means in English. (אמונה) is generally describing the knowing of something based on a foundation that is trustworthy / proven to be true. Kind of like say, though I don't remember being born I have seen enough evidence over the years to know my parents are the ones who gave birth to me.

Yet, there are some sources that state that it is a requirement for a Jew to "know" that there is a Source of reality / creation, rather to blindly or w/o evidence of some sort, to have faith in it.

In Jewish law, a person who is ancetrally Jewish but doesn't keep the Torah (with consideration of the reasons why) are considered to be outside of something else and not the national / social element. In some sources such a Jew is considered not to be a part of what is called Kelal Yisrael or Qahal Hashem. The Kelal Yisrael or Qahal Hashem are defined as those Jews who keep the Torah as the Creator gave it to the entire Jewish nation at Mount Sinai, as a national revelation. Those who don't keep Torah, with full knowledge of the reality and with intention intention against it, according to these sources, at that point are considered to be outside of Kelal Yisrael or Qahal Hashem.

Thus, when a non-Jew converts to the Torah and joins the Jewish people who keep Torah - for the reason that they recognize the truth in it and they want to join themselves to the Torah based Jewish community are considered to have joined themselves to Kelal Yisrael or Qahal Hashem.

I hope that helps.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Race? No. Ethnicity? Yes.

Race is the idea that there are separate and distinct groups of human beings based on superficial biological features. In reality, race does not actually exist.

That's a bit pedantic .. so there is no such thing as racism?

^ Talk about childish pedantry!

First:

Race refers to the social construction and categorization of people based on perceived shared physical traits that result in the maintenance of a sociopolitical hierarchy. The term is also loosely applied to geographic, cultural, religious, or national groups. Self-reported race frequently varies owing to changing social contexts and an individual’s possible identification with more than one race.​

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Ethnicity is a characterization of people based on having a shared culture (e.g., language, food, music, dress, values, and beliefs) related to common ancestry and shared history. [source]​

Second:

Racism is a form of prejudice that generally includes negative emotional reactions to members of a group, acceptance of negative stereotypes, and racial discrimination against individuals; in some cases it can lead to violence.​

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Discrimination refers to the differential treatment of different age, gender, racial, ethnic, religious, national, ability identity, sexual orientation, socioeconomic, and other groups at the individual level and the institutional/structural level. Discrimination is usually the behavioral manifestation of prejudice and involves negative, hostile, and injurious treatment of members of rejected groups. [source]​

Third:

An etymological fallacy is an argument of equivocation, arguing that a word is defined by its etymology, and that its customary usage is therefore incorrect.[1][2] [source]​

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