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  1. Spockrates

    Wondering About Forgiveness

    Agreed.
  2. Spockrates

    Wondering About Forgiveness

    I know little of Buddha and have much to learn from you. But the ideas to which he gave birth give me a desire to know him more. Here is one of his children who gives me some joy to see: "Conquer the angry one by not getting angry; conquer the wicked by goodness; conquer the stingy by...
  3. Spockrates

    Wondering About Forgiveness

    But then, think of the one who gave birth to the idea: Wasn't Buddha compassionate? Or was he something else? I mean, there is something else which is non-hate, for it is neither hate nor compassion. This something is apathy. Was Buddha teaching you and I to be apathetic? Did he believe apathy...
  4. Spockrates

    Wondering About Forgiveness

    Yes, but consider the meanings of the prefix non: non- nän/ prefix 1. not doing; not involved with. "nonaggression" 2. not of the kind or class described. "nonbeliever" It seems to me that compassion: • is not doing hate • is not involved with hate • is not a kind of hate • is not a class...
  5. Spockrates

    Wondering About Forgiveness

    I like that quote. Would you say non-hate is compassion?
  6. Spockrates

    Wondering About Forgiveness

    So when Jesus talks of not resisting one who tries to harm you and giving generously to one who steals from you and doing good to those who mistreat you and even loving one's enemies, these would be extremely challenging circumstances, which require much skill to empty compassion. My gut...
  7. Spockrates

    Wondering About Forgiveness

    OK, let's make sure I agree, or see if I misunderstand. I'm thinking skill is something one is either good at doing, or not so good at doing, but such can be improved with practice. So insofar as compassion has an emotional component we call empathy and a motivating component we call a desire...
  8. Spockrates

    Wondering About Forgiveness

    Very good! Let's consider your logical argument and see why the problem lies with (C). But before we do, are you thinking (A) and (B) agree with what we discussed earlier and don't have any factual errors you can yet see? (I'm wondering if we can avoid repeating what we already discussed over...
  9. Spockrates

    Wondering About Forgiveness

    Well, I certainly want to avoid delusion, as well as self-deception in any form. Let's see what we've discovered this far, and what conclusion our discoveries lead us to: Premise A. What we decided earlier: (1) Compassionate thoughts are compassion. (2) Compassionate words and deeds are the...
  10. Spockrates

    Wondering About Forgiveness

    Yes, and it seem to me everything we logically call a virtue is in someway compassion, either for oneself or another or both. I think it strange that earlier we said forgiveness is not an act of compassion, or perhaps I mistakenly thought we had.
  11. Spockrates

    Wondering About Forgiveness

    Makes sense to me. It is compassionate to be honest with oneself. But what about letting go of one's hatred for herself? Is this also a compassionate thing for her to do for herself?
  12. Spockrates

    Wondering About Forgiveness

    Then forgiveness must be a kind of compassion?
  13. Spockrates

    Wondering About Forgiveness

    And is this a compassionate thing for her to do for herself?
  14. Spockrates

    Wondering About Forgiveness

    Agreed. So let's say someone says she hates herself and wants to kill herself. Is it reasonable to make the inference that--after helping her realize what she has repressed--she needs to forgive herself by removing her own feelings of hate for herself and removing her own desire to harm herself?
  15. Spockrates

    Wondering About Forgiveness

    [emoji4]
  16. Spockrates

    Wondering About Forgiveness

    Thanks, I'll check it out, later. So does one forgive herself the same way she forgives others--by removing hateful thoughts she has for herself and removing desires to do herself harm?
  17. Spockrates

    Wondering About Forgiveness

    Yes, and thanks for forgiving my gender mistake! [emoji4] Yes, I understand the word forgive can apply to pardoning a debt or some other offense, and this is not the same as forgiving thoughts.
  18. Spockrates

    Wondering About Forgiveness

    Please briefly tell me about Dr. Jung's Shadow, if you want.
  19. Spockrates

    Wondering About Forgiveness

    Acim: I was responding to Crossfire and trying to confirm she believed premise (2) to be untrue. So in my discussion with her, she is saying there is no such thing as forgiving words or deeds. Words and deeds we incorrectly assume are forgiving are really just compassionate. The reason why she...
  20. Spockrates

    Wondering About Forgiveness

    Yes, what you say makes sense, and reminds me of a scene from the musical Les Miserables. The protagonist of the story is homeless and a priest invites him to stay the night in his home. During the night, he steals silver plates and cups from the priest and is caught by police as he leaves the...
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