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  1. Spockrates

    Wondering About Forgiveness

    Yes, that makes sense. But your previous argument still explains this. You said that we forgive with our minds only. Any forgiving actions taken cannot rightly be called forgiving. They are instead compassionate. Am I understanding you correctly?
  2. Spockrates

    Wondering About Forgiveness

    I'd say premise A does indeed describe Jesus' words about murderous thoughts. Premise A does not necessarily describe Jesus' words about adulterous thoughts. For one does not have to hold a grudge against the one she wants to sleep with. But I suppose a person considering rape might have a...
  3. Spockrates

    Wondering About Forgiveness

    OK. Please continue.
  4. Spockrates

    Wondering About Forgiveness

    Yes, murder begins in the "heart" or mind, but does it always end there, or is murder more complete when the one who has murder in her heart kills the one she is considering murdering? Yes, adultery and lust in other forms begins in the "heart" or mind, but does it always end there, or is...
  5. Spockrates

    Wondering About Forgiveness

    My apologies. I try to do my best to respond to every post, yet sometimes I fall short. At the beginning of this discussion, I was carrying on conversations with several people at once. Maybe now that it's just you and me, I can give you the full attention you deserve. You mean you shall see...
  6. Spockrates

    Wondering About Forgiveness

    Well, impressions I have are often misleading. For too often I get the wrong impression about someone! But what can I say or do to put your mind at ease and help you see you have the wrong impression of me? Perhaps you can ask me questions, for a change? Ask me what I think about specific...
  7. Spockrates

    Wondering About Forgiveness

    In Meno and elsewhere Socrates actually agrees with the truth of your assertion--not that he knew the truth, but that human beings are born with it. Realizing the truth is a process of remembering what we knew before we were born, but have since then forgotten, he inferred. Like other ideas he...
  8. Spockrates

    Wondering About Forgiveness

    I find it interesting that a discussion about forgiving turns into the one asking being accused of not really wanting to know. I'm sincere when I say this is not so.
  9. Spockrates

    Wondering About Forgiveness

    Not sure what you mean when you say, "partisan to their own self." Please explain. Also, I can't speak for anyone else but me, but I'd add that I'm genuinely not trying to win some kind of debate. I really want to possess the truth about what forgiveness is and why I should believe that idea...
  10. Spockrates

    Wondering About Forgiveness

    In one of the dialogs, Socrates discussed with a friend the difference between having the truth and possessing it. He used the analogy of a birdcage filled with birds to describe the thoughts of our mind, and together they came up with something like this: Imagine each thought is a different...
  11. Spockrates

    Wondering About Forgiveness

    So the upshot is that the Socratic method, if used with sincere motives to understand, is a superior way to learn, compared to debate. I agree with Socrates: "For the partisan, when he is engaged in a debate, cares nothing about the truth of the question, but is anxious only to convince his...
  12. Spockrates

    Wondering About Forgiveness

    Oh, sorry for being clear as mud! What I mean to convey is that this statement, "Yet, [Socrates] admitted that, like a midwife, he was himself barren, never giving birth to any truth himself. So the truths he helped others bring to life, he adopted and loved as though they were his own, being...
  13. Spockrates

    Wondering About Forgiveness

    Well, if what you say is true, then giving someone a second chance never is forgiving! You might be right, but I'd still like to be more convinced. Would you say giving someone a second chance is an act of love?
  14. Spockrates

    Wondering About Forgiveness

    I'm not sure I understand what you mean. How does the self-observation that he never comes up with any original ideas himself contradict the idea that he's had success helping others come up with original ideas of their own?
  15. Spockrates

    Wondering About Forgiveness

    Yes, in Theatetus, Socrates described his method using the analogy of a midwife helping a woman give birth. His mother was a midwife, he said, explaining that he helped men give birth to ideas, and then helped them examine those ideas to see if they were living truth, or lies better off taken to...
  16. Spockrates

    Wondering About Forgiveness

    That went over my head. Let me find a latter and try again, later. [emoji4]
  17. Spockrates

    Wondering About Forgiveness

    Yes, I think I understand. Let me be sure: Would you also say that pardoning someone for doing some wrong, forgiving a debt owed to you, or otherwise not requiring someone to suffer the consequences of her actions is not an act of forgiveness, but is instead an act of compassion, which might be...
  18. Spockrates

    Wondering About Different Religions

    But I appear to be going down a rabbit trail. Are you asking if I understand the mysteries of God? If so, I'd say I don't know. I think I try my best to comprehend what I don't know about God. But I'm in no way certain that what I think I know is true. Are you?
  19. Spockrates

    Wondering About Different Religions

    ...
  20. Spockrates

    Wondering About Different Religions

    Reminds me of something Socrates said to a close friend: "I cannot help feeling, Phaedrus, that writing is unfortunately like painting. For the creations of the painter have the attitude of life, and yet if you ask them a question they preserve a solemn silence. The same may be said of written...
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