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  1. Spockrates

    My support for hedonism

    I suspect Socrates was correct when he explained to his friend Cratylus: "Wonder is the feeling of a philosopher and philosophy begins with wonder." The Greek word for philosophy, I'm told roughly translates as Wisdom's lover, as if the one practicing the art and science has feelings akin to...
  2. Spockrates

    My support for hedonism

    Sorry for being clear as mud! I was not asking about the effects--the actions. I was asking about the causes of those effects--WONDER and DESIRE. Let me try to be clearer: Since emotionless wonder and desire are not genuine wonder and desire, does that mean emotionless wonder and desire does are...
  3. Spockrates

    My support for hedonism

    Good morning. I'm not sure I understand your answer, as I don't know how you are defining the word genuine. When you say wonder and desire devoid of emotion is not genuine, do you mean such emotionless wonder and desire is not real and does not exist? If so, I agree. So did you hear the actual...
  4. Spockrates

    My support for hedonism

    It seems to me wonder is like an epiphany: Just as an epiphany is the feeling of elation I get when I realize something I never before knew, so too wonder is the feeling of excited expectation I get when I desire to know something new. Unlike logic, epiphany and wonder never speak to me in...
  5. Spockrates

    My support for hedonism

    It seems to me that Logic and Emotion speak to me in different ways. I helps me to imagine them as two beautiful women each vying for my affections or attention and trying to influence my decisions in her own unique way. Logic is articulate. She speaks in words and sometimes in mathmatics. Yet...
  6. Spockrates

    My support for hedonism

    Yes, I understand and agree. :) If you mean it would not make his life worth living for the present but would make his life worth living for the future, then here I also agree. But did you answer my question? I asked why you are using logic in your replies in this forum now. What is the...
  7. Spockrates

    My support for hedonism

    But did you answer the question? I asked why you did your homework or studied for a test. Please tell me: Why did you? But did you answer the question? I did not ask if the IDEA was pleasurable. I asked if the RESULT was pleasurable. Having a good physique is pleasurable to him. Isn't it? If...
  8. Spockrates

    My support for hedonism

    If suffering is bad, why does anyone who has a choice between immediate and delayed gratification choose delayed gratification? Take yourself, for example. Have you ever completed a homework assignment or studied for a test? If it was not for the delayed pleasure of getting higher grades, then...
  9. Spockrates

    My support for hedonism

    .. Agreed. If all that gives you pleasure is good feelings, then the experience would be pain. A later gain, if such were to come, might make the pain worthwhile. If the body builder has no reason to lift weights, then why does he lift weights? If the intoxicated man has no reason to not...
  10. Spockrates

    My support for hedonism

    No problem. :) Why can't one area of our brains (logic) help the other area of our brains (feelings) obtain its goal? Why can't logic help us achieve more pleasant feelings later by choosing to suffer pain now? Is it impossible for delayed gratification to define our lives as being good and...
  11. Spockrates

    My support for hedonism

    ... Did I say the body builder should? Or did I merely make an observation that the body builder does? By choosing delayed gratification, the pleasure the body builder desires is obtained. If he never chooses the pain, he never achieves the greater pleasure, but he does have the lesser...
  12. Spockrates

    My support for hedonism

    Yes, but why think only of the moment? Consider a body builder. He might not enjoy the endless hours of exertion to build up his physique. But he does it to obtain a later and greater joy of having a body that will attract the opposite sex, having the strength to prevail in athletics, having...
  13. Spockrates

    My support for hedonism

    It's not the idea that is more pleasurable. It's the result. The choice to choose delayed gratification is itself painful. But the end result is greater, more valuable and more worthy pleasure. No pain, no gain. True?
  14. Spockrates

    My support for hedonism

    Ah, but you don't feel pleasure from it, or is the truth that you do, but just not right away? Think about it. We are talking about pleasure either way: By jumping you get instant gratification. By not jumping, you get delayed gratification. In this example, the end result for Hedonist Man is...
  15. Spockrates

    My support for hedonism

    OK. Please explain why jumping to your death is the better choice, instead.
  16. Spockrates

    My support for hedonism

    Please tell me, then: Who is more reliable when it comes to telling you the truth about achieving a life of hedonistic bliss? Freaky Feelings, or lovely Logic?
  17. Spockrates

    My support for hedonism

    With that, I'm OK, just wanted to hear you say the lovely lady Logic is at times a better one to give your heart to than her sometimes insane sister Emotion. :)
  18. Spockrates

    My support for hedonism

    OK, let's use the word beneficial, or likely, then. Let's say he started to listen to reason and realized he wanted to live, so he might enjoy the pleasure of tomorrow. But in his intoxicated state, the thought of not jumping brought him no pleasure. Let's say the guy about to die is in perfect...
  19. Spockrates

    My support for hedonism

    Actually, I'm asking: What good is more likely to result in the one about to jump obtaining a life of more pleasure? The logical good or the emotional good?
  20. Spockrates

    My support for hedonism

    But I think you are right in saying what reason tells us is bad our emotions might tell us is good. I guess the question to as ourselves is this: Who is a better guide to live our lives by? Wisdom or Emotion? In the example of Hedonist Man, who would make his life better? Emotion who gleefully...
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