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  1. Spockrates

    Wondering About Faith (Ephesians 2)

    "The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.” (John 3:8) I have never seen the Holy Spirit entering a human body, either. But as Christians, I believe we are sometimes called to...
  2. Spockrates

    Wondering About Faith (Ephesians 2)

    Yes, this is logically sound. If it is correct that all Christ is, is in the bread and all Christ is, is in the wine, then one would not have to consume both to receive all Christ is. One would not receive half of Christ by eating the bread and the other half of him by drinking the wine...
  3. Spockrates

    Wondering About Faith (Ephesians 2)

    :D
  4. Spockrates

    Wondering About Faith (Ephesians 2)

    Yes, I'm enjoying the dialog, too! I think the word true can--and often does--mean actual or literal. For example, if I were to say, "My desk is made of true oak," I would mean it is composed of literal wood, rather than figurative wood. I might also mean it is actual wood, instead of fake...
  5. Spockrates

    Wondering About Faith (Ephesians 2)

    How about when he says, "I am the Son of God"? Not every "I am" statement should be taken figuratively, I think. "Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am the Son’?" (John 10:36) So then, why do I think Jesus was speaking literally when he said this and figuratively when...
  6. Spockrates

    Wondering About Faith (Ephesians 2)

    Yes, my mistake! It's John 6:55.
  7. Spockrates

    Wondering About Faith (Ephesians 2)

    So I wonder. What do you think of these premises of mine? If you were to ask me, "What do you believe about ghosts? Are they real people?" I would believe you are asking me if ghosts are actual people, not symbolic people--if they literally exist as people. I would be mistaken if I thought you...
  8. Spockrates

    Wondering About Faith (Ephesians 2)

    Sorry, I edited my post. Please re read it. What concerns me is what Jesus meant when he said, "My flesh is real food and my blood is real drink." Of less concern is what a denomination that believes this should do once it believes Jesus' words are true. If Catholicism is in the wrong, perhaps...
  9. Spockrates

    Wondering About Faith (Ephesians 2)

    I think scripture can be logically interpreted to support the idea. Again, Jesus' words are in no way unambiguous to me. "This is my body," can mean either, "This is [like] my body," or "This [really] is my body". Now I hear you when you say Jesus did not say the bread was his literal flesh...
  10. Spockrates

    Wondering About Faith (Ephesians 2)

    My apologies. When you said all aspects, I misunderstood. I guess my answer is the same. Just as no two churches were exactly the same in teaching, practice or organization then, so to no two churches are exactly the same in these three today. Similar? Yes. Identical? No. But please tell me how...
  11. Spockrates

    Wondering About Faith (Ephesians 2)

    33 "For John the Baptist came neither eating bread nor drinking wine, and you say, ‘He has a demon.’ 34 The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and you say, ‘Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners.’" (Luke 7) The thing about alcohol is it kills bacteria...
  12. Spockrates

    Wondering About Faith (Ephesians 2)

    I'd say the buiscuits you create will be similar, but never identical. In fact, no two biscuits your grandmother made were exactly the same. So look at the Book of Acts. The Jewish Christians were no longer welcome in the houses of worship called synagogues. The Greek Christians chose to stop...
  13. Spockrates

    Wondering About Faith (Ephesians 2)

    OK, here is just one of many things I have in mind to show not all we need to know about pleasing God is explicitly contained in the pages of the Bible: I'm unable to find anything in the scriptures about the morality--or lack thereof--of cloning human beings. Please point out a chapter and...
  14. Spockrates

    Wondering About Faith (Ephesians 2)

    Please answer me these two questions, first. Then I promise to respond: When Paul wrote, "By grace you are saved, through faith..." (Ephesians 2:8), did he mean we are saved by faith, or through faith? What is the difference between being saved by faith and being saved through faith?
  15. Spockrates

    Wondering About Faith (Ephesians 2)

    Do you partake by drinking wine or grape juice?
  16. Spockrates

    Wondering About Faith (Ephesians 2)

    Since churches are made up of people, I'd say no church in existence today is the same as it was 24 hours ago. There was an Ancient Greek philosopher Epicurus who said, "It is impossible for a man to step in the same river twice. For the river he steps in a second time has changed, so it is no...
  17. Spockrates

    Wondering About Faith (Ephesians 2)

    So what you have here are several different topics of discussion. To make it easy, I will reply to each one separately. It will be a lot of work for both of us to discuss so many topics in one discussion thread, but I'm game. :)
  18. Spockrates

    Wondering About Faith (Ephesians 2)

    OK. Do you have an online source to confirm this? I will answer the other question as soon as I'm able. Good discussion! Looking forward to continuing it. :)
  19. Spockrates

    Wondering About Faith (Ephesians 2)

    Good reply. Making me think. Thanks. :) So it's off topic, but I don't mind changing the topic. I guess the question to ask is this: Do you want to keep the discussion pretty much between us with only perhaps some interruptions by keeping it here? Or do you want to possibly open it up to a...
  20. Spockrates

    Wondering About Faith (Ephesians 2)

    Thanks for listening and for asking. For lack of a better expression, I'll play "devil's advocate" and answer as a Catholic would--not because I am sure they are right, but because I'd like to see if I can be shown they are wrong. You see, I really don't want to become a Catholic, but I feel I...
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