20 Signs that God exist, and Quraan is the word of God

[Sabour]

So they need to stay celibate in your view? God can't and won't "make it go disappear". They were born that way.

I don't agree with they were born with that in any way. Most of them had some issues while young or they didn't receive enough care.

I know some who were homosexuals and repented and are living a "normal" life.

I am not making this up.

If you are pretty sure that they are born this way, than for sure they can face it and make it stop, because Allah doesn't punish you for something you are born with.

Being homosexual is something people are born with, and God made them as much as he made you and me.

I don't believe that any would be born that way. But in case they are, than it is a desire that one must fight.

Fighting desires is a reason that may lead someone to go to heaven

 

[Sabour]

As I said - it is talking about apostates - as shown by reading surrounding text!


Even - Sahih International - the translation you folks love to use, - says that "fall back" is into DISBELIEF. Thus apostasy.




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So, hypocrites are believers? and because there is Disbelief it is apostasy ?

 

[cocokorina]

I don't agree with they were born with that in any way. Most of them had some issues while young or they didn't receive enough care.

thats your opinion, not a fact. why is it that scientists and psychiatrists dont agree with this ?

I know some who were homosexuals and repented and are living a "normal" life.
I am not making this up.

if one is brainwashed into thinking that they will go to hell for sleeping with same sex, they will try to remain celibate. does that kill their desire? NO. that doesn't mean they are living a happy life. can you imagine being celibate for your entire life? thats how they must feel. it's definitely possible for a gay person to never have sex with same sex but it is impossible for them to kill their desire for same sex.

If you are pretty sure that they are born this way, than for sure they can face it and make it stop, because Allah doesn't punish you for something you are born with.

can you stop being attracted to the opposite gender?

I don't believe that any would be born that way. But in case they are, than it is a desire that one must fight.

seems very unfair that God would purposely make people homosexual but expect them to live heterosexual life..

Fighting desires is a reason that may lead someone to go to heaven

but a heterosexual man can easily marry a woman, be sexually satisfied and still go to heaven. does it seem fair??

 

[Debater Slayer]

When you say homosexuality.

Do you believe that some are born like this ?

No, not some. I believe all homosexuals have as much control or lack thereof over their sexual orientation as you, I, and other heterosexuals do. So yes, I believe they're born the way they are--or, at the very least, I believe it's a myth that there's always a "story behind every homosexual."

Scientific evidence indicates that homosexuality isn't unnatural, unhealthy, or psychologically abnormal in and of itself. In fact, it is discrimination against people because of their sexual orientation that is harmful and damaging to their psychological well-being.

Answers to Your Questions For a Better Understanding of Sexual Orientation and Homosexuality

The belief that homosexuals should live in denial and base their sexual and love lives around the false hope of "curing" or changing their sexual orientation seems to be driven by outdated, inaccurate notions about sexual orientation rather than evidence or logic.

And may I know what you meant about the speach part? I tried to track it but I got lost

The whole exchange about freedom of speech started with the comments in post #179. I disagree with the idea of responding to mere words and criticism with violence and threats.

 

[Ingledsva]

ALL real science says people are born homosexual.

Let's say I agree with that for the sake of argument.

Lut known as Lot in the Old Testament, is a prophet of God in the Quran. He also appears in the Bible, but the biblical stories of Lot are not entirely accepted within Islam. According to Islamic tradition, Lot lived in Ur and was the son of Haran and nephew of Abraham. He migrated with Abraham to Canaan. He was commissioned as a prophet to the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah. His story is used to demonstrate Islam's disapproval of rape and homosexuality. He was commanded by God to go to the land of Sodom and Gomorrah to preach to his people on monotheism and to stop them from their lustful and violent acts

So this means that he was telling them to stop. If they stopped, would he have told them get lost, God won't forgive you?

The sin is insisting on doing it. Repentance is always open as long as the person didn't die and the sun didn't rise from the west.

Almost all homosexuals have problems and they wish they can stop. They all have the fear that they would be left to grow up alone. And they aren't peace with themselves because they are doing something against human nature. They all want to live a normal life. Islam gives them this opportunity.

Islam doesn't just tell you do and don't. It offers you the way to do it. No soul is charged to what it can't take.

2:268

Allah does not charge a soul except [with that within] its capacity. It will have [the consequence of] what [good] it has gained, and it will bear [the consequence of] what [evil] it has earned. "Our Lord, do not impose blame upon us if we have forgotten or erred. Our Lord, and lay not upon us a burden like that which You laid upon those before us. Our Lord, and burden us not with that which we have no ability to bear. And pardon us; and forgive us; and have mercy upon us. You are our protector, so give us victory over the disbelieving people."

ING - Tradition - is not the word of Qur'an - or Bible!


The Tanakh does not say ANYWHERE that the sins of Sodom were homosexual in nature.

You said semen was poison to men.

I didn't say that. I didn't research it. I think it is true.

ING - LOL! You posted it, - and just told us you believe it!

So - I guess we can assume you have had to be rushed to the hospital - numerous times - because you were poisoned by your own semen?


Semen DOES NOT poison men! That is a FACT!

Men make semen - obviously it isn't poison to them!

ING - What's the matter? Can't come up with a logical rebuttal?

Men and women are both humans. If semen was poison to men - it would also be poison to women.

ING - Again - TRUE - and - again - you have no logical rebuttal!

Hence - you are wrong!

:clap:clap

You are clapping because you have been proven wrong?


Very strange!



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[beenie]

I don't agree with they were born with that in any way. Most of them had some issues while young or they didn't receive enough care.

I beg to differ. I am very close to a few homosexuals, and in no way did they choose their lifestyle. They came from very loving, caring homes (one is a relative and we are very close to the family). He was visibly effeminate at a young age, but was 100% male. He grew up homosexual and is living happily, in a monogomous relationship, for nearly two decades. For all the years he had to hide his sexual orientation (from outsiders, NOT his family), he suffered from deep, debilitating depression. Once he came out and his parents helped him move from the oppressive underground homosexual community that is alive and well in Pakistan, to England, he has been free of most anti-depressants since. I suppose he should have prayed harder?

I know some who were homosexuals and repented and are living a "normal" life.

I am not making this up.

That's very rare.

If you are pretty sure that they are born this way, than for sure they can face it and make it stop, because Allah doesn't punish you for something you are born with.

No way, dude. You can't pray away hormones and sexual attraction/orientation.

I don't believe that any would be born that way. But in case they are, than it is a desire that one must fight.

Fighting desires is a reason that may lead someone to go to heaven

Explain how we knew my family member would likely be homosexual when we met him., and he was older than a toddler.

 

[Ingledsva]

As I said - it is talking about apostates - as shown by reading surrounding text!


Even - Sahih International - the translation you folks love to use, - says that "fall back" is into DISBELIEF. Thus apostasy.

So, hypocrites are believers? and because there is Disbelief it is apostasy ?

LOL! They can't fall back into DISBELIEF, - unless they once BELIEVED.


If they once BELIEVED, - and then "fall back" into DISBELIEF, - that is obviously APOSTACY!



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[Ingledsva]

...



Sorry, but you are mistaken. The quoted verses are indeed talking about hypocrites, not apostates. Please look up the meanings of both words before attacking. While I don't defend the verses above, it helps to know what they actually mean.

And what does one call a once BELIEVING "hypocrite," who FALLS BACK into DISBELIEF?


- APOSTATE -


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[FearGod]

Malik : Their real wish is to see that you become a disbeliever, as they themselves have disbelieved, so that you may become exactly like them. So you should not take friends from their ranks unless they immigrate in the way of Allah; and if they do not, seize them and kill them wherever you find them, and do not take any of them as protectors or helpers.


Yusuf Ali : They but wish that ye should reject faith as they do and thus be on the same footing (as they): but take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (from what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks. 607 "


Pickthall : They long that ye should disbelieve even as they disbelieve, that ye may be upon a level (with them). So choose not friends from them till they forsake their homes in the way of Allah; if they turn back then take them and kill them wherever ye find them, and choose no friend nor helper from among them,

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You can't make any fair judgement while you are ignorant in the Arabic language

The verse in Arabic

is the plural for

Look up for the meaning of the word

which means to take over,so if the disbelievers took over you then you have to fight them,other translations are wrong.

 

[Sabour]

You're mistaken. I've known lots of homosexuals and most of them seemed to have been homosexual from childhood. Not all... but most.

How many homosexuals have you known?

very few. It is not something to go open about in my society.

What do you mean by childhood? What age?

Still if that was the case, that doesn't make it natural. Most probably you will find these had family problems and saw violence in the house.

 

[cocokorina]

Still if that was the case, that doesn't make it natural. Most probably you will find these had family problems and saw violence in the house.

what makes something natural? natural means

1. produced by nature: present in or produced by nature, not artificial or synthetic

homosexuality is not 'artificial' and it exists in nature, so it's natural. homosexuals have a natural desire for same sex.
whether you find it immoral is a separate issue. but you cannot call something unnatural because your religion doesn't allow it. sex is also natural behavior but it becomes 'wrong' when its done outside of marriage, but that doesn't make it any less natural.
and as for your second comment about violence making one homosexual is completely false. if that were the case, a much larger population would be gay!

 

[FearGod]

more dishonesty and lies. you made up your own translation! :clap you know very well how important it is to obey Mohammad's commands. if mohammad' commands were only for those at that time, why was mohammad sent for entire humanity?? and why must muslim recite the kalima which states There is no god, but allah and MOHAMMAD is his messenger?? if mohammad isn't important, why is his name in the shahada?
Also, have you ever heard of Sunnah? please tell me what sunnah is and if it's important for muslims to follow it.
As per islam, Mohammad was taught how to pray through angel Gibrail who taught him how to. and then mohammad taught his followers how to pray. if you dont pray like that, you're not even following the 2nd pillar of islam which is salaat. and you dint reply, do you go to masjid? how does the imam lead prayer if there is no organized set way of praying?? you make no sense whatsover. either you are a terrible muslim yourself who knows nothing about islam, or you're being very deceitful.

You are mixing up things here.

Who told you that prophet Mohammed isn't important,isn't the quran God's message through prophet Mohammed and in which we have to announce him as the messenger of God.

Talking about praying,it isn't of your business how i pray or how i want to pray,i am free for the way i want to pray and it isn't of your business if i want to pray in the mosque or in home or while walking or while sleeping.

You are always repeating do you know Sunna,are you Sunna,should i alway repeat it to you that i am Muslim and nothing else,OMG,:areyoucra

 

[Debater Slayer]

very few. It is not something to go open about in my society.

What do you mean by childhood? What age?

Still if that was the case, that doesn't make it natural. Most probably you will find these had family problems and saw violence in the house.

Scientific evidence indicates that is incorrect. It is natural just like heterosexuality is, and most aren't homosexual because of any of the things you have mentioned.

If you are interested in accurate information about the subject of sexual orientation and whether or not it's a choice, I suggest starting with the link I posted in my earlier reply to you here and reading what professionals have to say about the subject. It'd be much more intellectually honest and considerate to the people you are talking about if you took the time to research the topic more before making statements about them.

 

[Ingledsva]

You can't make any fair judgement while you are ignorant in the Arabic language

The verse in Arabic

is the plural for

Look up for the meaning of the word

which means to take over,so if the disbelievers took over you then you have to fight them,other translations are wrong.

LOL! Look at your own post there!


It is also to ESPOUSE = adopt or support a cause, belief, etc.


As well as - adopt, foster, and take on!


That is what Apostates do - LOL!



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[farouk]

Peace
What does the bible say about homosexuality.
Levitcus 18:22
Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
Levitcus 20:13
If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
Deuteronomy 23:17-18
There shall be no whore of the daughters of Israel, nor a sodomite of the sons of Israel.
Thou shalt not bring the hire of a whore, or the price of a dog, into the house of the Lord thy God for any vow: for even both these are abomination unto the Lord thy God.

These are Gods laws.Break these laws and you declare war with God.History will repeat itself.Send them to a rehab or we all pay a handsome price.
Peace
Farouk

 

[FearGod]

LOL! Look at your own post there!


It is also to ESPOUSE = adopt or support a cause, belief, etc.


As well as - adopt, foster, and take on!


That is what Apostates do - LOL!



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The verse is very clear and it has nothing to do with the Apostates but it is only your problem because of the way you want to think "wishful thinking".

You have to be well educated in the Arabic language as to make a fair judgement.

[youtube]3Y2Or0LlO6g[/youtube]
Lesley Hazleton: A "tourist" reads the Koran - YouTube

 

[beenie]

very few. It is not something to go open about in my society.

What do you mean by childhood? What age?

Still if that was the case, that doesn't make it natural. Most probably you will find these had family problems and saw violence in the house.

You have no idea how wrong you are.

 

[beenie]

LOL! Look at your own post there!


It is also to ESPOUSE = adopt or support a cause, belief, etc.


As well as - adopt, foster, and take on!


That is what Apostates do - LOL!



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Are you fluent in Arabic? No? Ok then.

 

[Debater Slayer]

Peace
What does the bible say about homosexuality.
Levitcus 18:22
Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
Levitcus 20:13
If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
Deuteronomy 23:17-18
There shall be no whore of the daughters of Israel, nor a sodomite of the sons of Israel.
Thou shalt not bring the hire of a whore, or the price of a dog, into the house of the Lord thy God for any vow: for even both these are abomination unto the Lord thy God.

These are Gods laws.Break these laws and you declare war with God.History will repeat itself.Send them to a rehab or we all pay a handsome price.
Peace
Farouk

I don't regard the Bible as an authority on morality either. Actually, I consider a lot of the verses in it to be violent and unethical.

I don't care what an ancient book says about homosexuals. They're humans with equal rights and should be treated as such. Comments like "send them to a rehab" say far more about your hateful condescension toward others than they say about them.

 

[Ingledsva]

Peace
What does the bible say about homosexuality.
Levitcus 18:22
Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
Levitcus 20:13
If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
Deuteronomy 23:17-18
There shall be no whore of the daughters of Israel, nor a sodomite of the sons of Israel.
Thou shalt not bring the hire of a whore, or the price of a dog, into the house of the Lord thy God for any vow: for even both these are abomination unto the Lord thy God.

These are Gods laws.Break these laws and you declare war with God.History will repeat itself.Send them to a rehab or we all pay a handsome price.
Peace
Farouk

NONE of these in their original language can actually be proved to be about homosexuality.


We have discussed these many times.


For instance - Deuteronomy 23:17 There shall be no whore of the daughters of Israel, nor a sodomite of the sons of Israel.


This actually says;

23:17 There shall be no Qadeshah of the daughters of Israel, nor a Qadesh of the sons of Israel.



These are the Sacred Prostitutes of Baal worship, - which is why Hebrew sons and daughters are forbidden to become such.


It has nothing to do with homosexuals.



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