20 Signs that God exist, and Quraan is the word of God

[FearGod]

Then the millions who accepted Islam while not knowing Arabic judged it fairly?.

I am pointing to one fact and which is that language isn't a barrier otherwise we can't see Americans,Chinese,Japanese ..etc accepting Islam.

 

[FearGod]

Millions accept islam yet how many practice it properly ? And many people are Muslims but don't agree with many Islamic things such as polygamy or sharia. Many also leave islam but cannot declare it as they can be killed for it

Killed for it.

Such as for any other religion,what you choose is what you are.
For example i can't be a Muslim and at the same time spent my nights in the night clubs and pick up one prostitute every and each night,just saying

 

[Sabour]

Millions accept islam yet how many practice it properly ?

I think all those who accept Islam practice it nowadays.

And many people are Muslims but don't agree with many Islamic things such as polygamy or sharia.

Somethings are mentioned in the Quraan and people can't deny it.

If someone doesn't see the benefits behind something, this doesn't mean it is wrong.

Many also leave islam but cannot declare it as they can be killed for it. Again this just shows all humans will never accept one religion . To Christians, Christianity is the truth . I don't see how one religion can be the truth and those who deny it are going to hell forever

Do you mean that we are all going to heaven ?

 

[cocokorina]

Killed for it.

Such as for any other religion,what you choose is what you are.
For example i can't be a Muslim and at the same time spent my nights in the night clubs and pick up one prostitute every and each night,just saying

Why is it a crime to declare apostasy ? Why do so many muslim countries have blasphemy laws?

 

[FearGod]

Why is it a crime to declare apostasy ? Why do so many muslim countries have blasphemy laws?

Why you need to declare it at first place.
Religion is what between you and God.

 

[cocokorina]

Why you need to declare it at first place.
Religion is what between you and God.

Let's say I want to marry a nonmuslim guy as I m no longer a muslim. If I live in any Muslim country, I will have to declare myself as nonmuslim because Islamic law doesn't permit muslim woman to marry nonmuslim . Also if religiois Muslims have the right to preach islam, why don't apostates have the right to declare they no longer believe in it? If religion is between us and god, why is it that almost all muslim countries have some Islamic laws even of it's not as crazy as sharia. I'm from Pakistan it doesn't have sharia but many haram things are criminal there. So no religion is not just between you and god atleast not islam . Islam does not promote secularity

 

[FearGod]

Let's say I want to marry a nonmuslim guy as I m no longer a muslim. If I live in any Muslim country, I will have to declare myself as nonmuslim because Islamic law doesn't permit muslim woman to marry nonmuslim . Also if religiois Muslims have the right to preach islam, why don't apostates have the right to declare they no longer believe in it? If religion is between us and god, why is it that almost all muslim countries have some Islamic laws even of it's not as crazy as sharia. I'm from Pakistan it doesn't have sharia but many haram things are criminal there. So no religion is not just between you and god atleast not islam . Islam does not promote secularity

I don't know about those laws in your country but in my country i can discuss religion and even reject Islam with no penalty,and that was even the case during the Islamic empire but if using the force to mislead others then that is apostate and should be punished but discussion is more than welcome in Islam.

For example some thinkers and Muslim scientists during the Islamic Empire discussed Islam and declare their skepticism about Islam but still were respected for their scientific achievements.

On the Qur'an, Al Razi said:
You claim that the evidentiary miracle is present and available, namely, the Koran. You say: "Whoever denies it, let him produce a similar one." Indeed, we shall produce a thousand similar, from the works of rhetoricians, eloquent speakers and valiant poets, which are more appropriately phrased and state the issues more succinctly. They convey the meaning better and their rhymed prose is in better meter. … By God what you say astonishes us! You are talking about a work which recounts ancient myths, and which at the same time is full of contradictions and does not contain any useful information or explanation. Then you say: "Produce something like it

Reference : Muhammad ibn Zakariya al-Razi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[cocokorina]

I don't know about those laws in your country but in my country i can discuss religion and even reject Islam with no penalty,and that was even the case during the Islamic empire but if using the force to mislead others then that is apostate and should be punished but discussion is more than welcome in Islam.

For example some thinkers and Muslim scientists during the Islamic Empire discussed Islam and declare their skepticism about Islam but still were respected for their scientific achievements.

On the Qur'an, Al Razi said:
You claim that the evidentiary miracle is present and available, namely, the Koran. You say: "Whoever denies it, let him produce a similar one." Indeed, we shall produce a thousand similar, from the works of rhetoricians, eloquent speakers and valiant poets, which are more appropriately phrased and state the issues more succinctly. They convey the meaning better and their rhymed prose is in better meter. … By God what you say astonishes us! You are talking about a work which recounts ancient myths, and which at the same time is full of contradictions and does not contain any useful information or explanation. Then you say: "Produce something like it

Reference : Muhammad ibn Zakariya al-Razi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In your country can anyone give a public speech on why islam is immoral and how Mohammad did terrible things? Which country are you talking about? Pakistan doesn't have sharia but haram things are punishable such as homosexuality, sodomy, saying negative things about prophet or islam , marriage between muslim woman and nonmuslim Man is also not allowed in majority of muslim countries even those without sharia. Which musliim country with the exception if turkey, allow these things?

 

[FearGod]

In your country can anyone give a public speech on why islam is immoral and how Mohammad did terrible things? Which country are you talking about? Pakistan doesn't have sharia but haram things are punishable such as homosexuality, sodomy, saying negative things about prophet or islam , marriage between muslim woman and nonmuslim Man is also not allowed in majority of muslim countries even those without sharia. Which musliim country with the exception if turkey, allow these things?

For what reason a non Muslim will marry a Muslim woman.
Is it love ?

OK,let me give you a solution for it.

Tell your lover that you loves him so much and that both of you need to do a a small trick as to marry,ask him to convert to Islam just in fake manner and that he can still live the atheist way of life in reality but only Muslim as ink in paper,and if he loves you,then he'll do the trick.

Easy right,isn't it.

 

[cocokorina]

For what reason a non Muslim will marry a Muslim woman.
Is it love ?

OK,let me give you a solution for it.

Tell your lover that you loves him so much and that both of you need to do a a small trick as to marry,ask him to convert to Islam just in fake manner and that he can still live the atheist way of life in reality but only Muslim as ink in paper,and if he loves you,then he'll do the trick.

Easy right,isn't it.

are you joking or is this serious? why should i do this 'trick'??

 

[FearGod]

are you joking or is this serious? why should i do this 'trick'??

I'm very serious,you can both marry and live the atheist way of life.

Also he can drink alcohol if he wishes,even the Pakistani made one.

http://southasiainvestor.blogspot.com/2010/04/pakistans-murree-beer-shares-in-kse-100.html

 

[Debater Slayer]

I'm very serious,you can both marry and live the atheist way of life.

Also he can drink alcohol if he wishes,even the Pakistani made one.

South Asia Investor Review: Pakistan's Murree Beer Shares in KSE-100 Index

What is the "atheist way of life"? You mean being able to live like a human being without fear of harassment or discrimination?

 

[cocokorina]

I'm very serious,you can both marry and live the atheist way of life.

Also he can drink alcohol if he wishes,even the Pakistani made one.



South Asia Investor Review: Pakistan's Murree Beer Shares in KSE-100 Index

ok so this is where you're being contradictory.
first you said why declare apostacy when religion is between you and God. if religion is between me and God, why does islam have its own laws which dictate how people must live? please tell me why a muslim woman is not allowed to marry a nonmuslim in a muslim country, if religion is something between you and God?

 

[FearGod]

What is the "atheist way of life"? You mean being able to live like a human being without fear of harassment or discrimination?

As to live the way he wishes away of God laws,for example he may wishes to drink alcohol but won't if being Muslim in reality but that isn't the case even in Muslims countries where you can see wine shops every where,so killing apostates is a stupid thing to say.

The story of apostate was due to the story of some Muslims who formed a military to fight Islam and were called apostates and then Abu Baker ordered to fight apostate's worriers,so it isn't about a Muslim drinking alcohol but the ones using force to control the state of Islam.

 

[FearGod]

ok so this is where you're being contradictory.
first you said why declare apostacy when religion is between you and God. if religion is between me and God, why does islam have its own laws which dictate how people must live? please tell me why a muslim woman is not allowed to marry a nonmuslim in a muslim country, if religion is something between you and God?

May i ask you one question ?

Is it allowed to sell and drink wine in Pakistan ?

 

[cocokorina]

May i ask you one question ?

Is it allowed to sell and drink wine in Pakistan ?

no. the only people who can sell it and buy it legally are nonmuslim. anyone buying it has to show their ID which states they are nonmuslim. ofcourse muslim still buy it by bribing the cops, but it is illegal for muslims in pakistan to buy or consume alcohol.
my concern here is not alcohol.

why is marriage not allowed between muslim woman and nonmuslim man? if want to marry a nonmuslim, i would have to declare myself as an apostate who has rejected Islam. even if apostacy is not a crime, is it not a crime to speak against islam and prophet in a muslim country? can anyoone give a public speech on how terrible quran is or how mohammad wasn't a good person? please be honest here.

 

[FearGod]

no. the only people who can sell it and buy it legally are nonmuslim. anyone buying it has to show their ID which states they are nonmuslim. ofcourse muslim still buy it by bribing the cops, but it is illegal for muslims in pakistan to buy or consume alcohol.
my concern here is not alcohol.

why is marriage not allowed between muslim woman and nonmuslim man? if want to marry a nonmuslim, i would have to declare myself as an apostate who has rejected Islam. even if apostacy is not a crime, is it not a crime to speak against islam and prophet in a muslim country? can anyoone give a public speech on how terrible quran is or how mohammad wasn't a good person? please be honest here.

You are saying that he should show his ID as to see what is his religion.

Here is a Pakistani ID,show me where the title religion is

 

[cocokorina]

You are saying that he should show his ID as to see what is his religion.

Here is a Pakistani ID,show me where the title religion is

are you saying a muslim is legally allowed to buy alcohol? have you been to paksitan.
do you know paksitani passport include religion
Pakistan’s absurd inclusion of religion on passports | Affaires étrangères

please read pakistani penal code taken directly from pakistani website:


Owning or possessing intoxicant.
Whoever owns, possesses or keeps in his custody any intoxicant shall be punished with imprisonment of either description for a term, which may extend to two years, or with whipping not exceeding thirty stripes, and shall also be liable to fine:

Provided that nothing contained in this Article shall apply to a non-Muslim foreigner or to a non-Muslim citizen of Pakistan who keeps in his custody at or about the time of a ceremony prescribed by his religion a reasonable quantity of intoxicating liquor for the purpose of using it as a part of such ceremony: ​

The Prohibition (Enforcement Of Hadd) Order, 1979.


once again, why are you talking about alochol consumption? my question was regarding marriage laws which can force one to declare apostacy.

 

[FearGod]

are you saying a muslim is legally allowed to buy alcohol? have you been to paksitan.
do you know paksitani passport include religion
Pakistan’s absurd inclusion of religion on passports | Affaires étrangères

please read pakistani penal code taken directly from pakistani website:


Owning or possessing intoxicant.
Whoever owns, possesses or keeps in his custody any intoxicant shall be punished with imprisonment of either description for a term, which may extend to two years, or with whipping not exceeding thirty stripes, and shall also be liable to fine:

Provided that nothing contained in this Article shall apply to a non-Muslim foreigner or to a non-Muslim citizen of Pakistan who keeps in his custody at or about the time of a ceremony prescribed by his religion a reasonable quantity of intoxicating liquor for the purpose of using it as a part of such ceremony: ​

The Prohibition (Enforcement Of Hadd) Order, 1979.


once again, why are you talking about alochol consumption? my question was regarding marriage laws which can force one to declare apostacy.

You said ID and not passport,and i don't think if one will go to a club then he has to show his passport,is he traveling.

Regarding your specific question about marriage.

I think for marriage to success both have to be in harmony,IOW they have the same way of thinking and the same style of life.

For example imagine that my girlfriend is an atheist and i married her then when our daughter was 18 she chose to work as a porn star,now i won't accept my daughter to work as a prostitute whereas her mother agreed and said that her daughter is free to work as she wishes.

So as i said it is easy to put ink on paper and the atheist becomes a muslim and marriage becomes legal and if you love the way he lives then you won't have any problem with him.

In few words religion is way of life,so if both have different style of life then do you think marriage can success.

 

[cocokorina]

You said ID and not passport,and i don't think if one will go to a club then he has to show his passport,is he traveling.

nonmuslims have a separate ID stating their nonmuslim status so they can buy alcohol. did you not read the link i sent you stating it's criminal offense to sell or buy alchohol if you're a muslim? anyone whos purchasing it must legally present state issued id specifically for religion.how else would the seller know that the customer is muslim or nonmuslim?? please read up pakistani law before jumping into such conclusions. pakistan does not have the strict form of sharia like saudi but pakistan does have laws on alcohol, marriage, fornication, adultery and homosexuality. clearly shows religion and state cannot be separate according to islam.

Regarding your specific question about marriage.

I think for marriage to success both have to be in harmony,IOW they have the same way of thinking and the same style of life.
For example imagine that my girlfriend is an atheist and i married her then when our daughter was 18 she chose to work as a porn star,now i won't accept my daughter to work as a prostitute whereas her mother agreed and said that her daughter is free to work as she wishes.

So as i said it is easy to put ink on paper and the atheist becomes a muslim and marriage becomes legal and if you love the way he lives then you won't have any problem with him.

In few words religion is way of life,so if both have different style of life then do you think marriage can success.

i didn't ask you what kind of marriage is succesful. I simply asked you, why is it that declaring apostacy is a crime? you mentioned religion should be between you and God. fair enough. i believe that too. but the problem is Islam doesn't work like that. Islam imposes itself on all citizens. islam promotes SHARIA and islamic law. islamic law dictates who you can marry and who cannot marry. i cannot marry a nonmuslim man if i were living in muslim state, unless i were to declare apostasy. islamic law was also carried by the prophet mohamad too you cant even deny the importance of sharia.
so, are you being contradictory now? first you said religion is between a person and God but now you are supporting islamic laws which clearly shows its not just about you and God. is it okay for islam to be imposed in muslim majority states?