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2024 USA PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION DAY watch party.

Watchmen

Watchmen

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Stevicus said:
After the past several years, I have realized that self-reflection and actually admitting mistakes is something Democrats just aren't willing to do. They have a superiority complex so thick that you can cut it with a knife.
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Bingo! Hopefully, the Democratic Party can stop being so elitist and get back to old school liberalism.
 
9-10ths_Penguin

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
Nimos said:
One of the things that surprises me the most is really how little the US seems to care about all the cases against him. They have potentially voted a criminal as President, obviously, we will never find out as he will now get rid of all those now, but I would at least have thought it had played a bigger role.

Whether you like Trump or not, you have to give him that he is a good manipulator. :)
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I think the thing with Trump is just that he's kinda clueless about how the game is played, and as they say, in poker,,you can't bluff someone who doesn't know how to play, because they won't recognize when they're in a bad spot.

With someone like Nixon, he knew enough to see the writing on the wall and resign rather than getting kicked out. OTOH, with Trump, it seems like he doesn't know what the law says or why different norms are the way they are, so he just ignores them... and he seems to have lucked out to be president at a time when hyper-partisanship means that Republican officials will support "their guy" no matter what.and won't lose votes from Republican voters for doing it.

I don't think it's manipulation as much as just doing whatever he wants. I mean, he would break laws that didn't win him any advantage, either because he couldn't be bothered to follow them or couldn't be bothered to learn what they are.
 
We Never Know

We Never Know

No Slack
Watchmen said:
I think the sexism/racism argument is a cop out. She's a non-dynamic, shallow candidate who actually didn't even go through the primary process and ran on a "vibe" rather than actual policies. She needed to do more than "I'm not Trump," and failed at that miserably (e.g., recall when she said on The View that she "wouldn't change a thing" re Biden's term).
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Well...

IMG_20241106_082250.jpg
 
Stevicus

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
9-10ths_Penguin said:
This is the sort of thing I hear from Trump supporters that makes it difficult to see Trump's appeal.

I really do get the sense that Trump supporters generally fall into a few categories:

- anti-choicers who don't like him, but are willing to vote for anyone who will appoint anti-abortion judges

- people who see his racism, misogyny and xenophobia as positives, not negatives

- people who just want to metaphorically burn the whole system down and see Trump as the guy to do it, or

- people whose Republican party affiliation is such a part of their identity that they'd never think to vote for anyone else.


Except for the second category, I see very few people who can coherently express why they think Trump will do what they consider to be a good job. People will fire off platitudes like "the economy!" but without anything to back it up, so it feels like cover for their real reasons for voting for him.

I just don't get it.
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I don't know if there's any one single factor that one can pinpoint here. However, I would note that regarding the third category you have listed, I doubt that anyone from that group would care if Trump did a good job. They may actually hope that he does a bad job. Maybe it comes from a certain nihilistic sub-culture that I've noticed rising to the surface, although that would probably align more with the second category here.

I think some of this should also be viewed within the context of what the past few decades have been like and how it may have affected to the American political consciousness. A lot of things about politics tend towards the symbolic and abstract, which can't really be measured or proven with any tangible data. It seems that oftentimes, it's about how people feel, even if they can't explain why they feel that way.

As for me, I can understand the feeling, but I prefer to let the logical part of my mind override personal feelings. I try to, anyway. It's not always that easy.
 
Nimos

Nimos

Well-Known Member
9-10ths_Penguin said:
I think the thing with Trump is just that he's kinda clueless about how the game is played, and as they say, in poker,,you can't bluff someone who doesn't know how to play, because they won't recognize when they're in a bad spot.

With someone like Nixon, he knew enough to see the writing on the wall and resign rather than getting kicked out. OTOH, with Trump, it seems like he doesn't know what the law says or why different norms are the way they are, so he just ignores them... and he seems to have lucked out to be president at a time when hyper-partisanship means that Republican officials will support "their guy" no matter what.and won't lose votes from Republican voters for doing it.

I don't think it's manipulation as much as just doing whatever he wants. I mean, he would break laws that didn't win him any advantage, either because he couldn't be bothered to follow them or couldn't be bothered to learn what they are.
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Agree he is treating it as a business, which makes sense as that is where he has his experience and there is nothing wrong with that given how the system works anyone can run as a candidate if they can get enough support.

But I don't think Trump is a person that sees himself as doing anything wrong, I don't think that word really exists with him, others screw up or are to blame for things being bad. At the beginning when he first ran there were Republicans who were against him, but he managed to silence them or get them to support him. So whatever he did he succeeded with it, because a lot of those were experienced politicians.

By manipulative I mean he just keeps repeating the same things and puts himself as the victim of a system out to get him. And for some reason, he has managed to convince a lot of Americans that the system is corrupt and he is the person that can solve it. Despite being a criminal himself. I would call that manipulative and he is very skilled at just getting away and ignoring all these things he says and is accused of.

A normal politician I think would have a rough time with all the things he has done, yet he seems completely unaffected by it and apparently, the majority of Americans also don't care enough about it.

It's crazy, but I think there are some very huge differences between how Europeans look at things and how at least some Americans do.
 
anna.

anna.

colors your eyes with what's not there
9-10ths_Penguin said:
This is the sort of thing I hear from Trump supporters that makes it difficult to see Trump's appeal.

I really do get the sense that Trump supporters generally fall into a few categories:

- anti-choicers who don't like him, but are willing to vote for anyone who will appoint anti-abortion judges

- people who see his racism, misogyny and xenophobia as positives, not negatives

- people who just want to metaphorically burn the whole system down and see Trump as the guy to do it, or

- people whose Republican party affiliation is such a part of their identity that they'd never think to vote for anyone else.


Except for the second category, I see very few people who can coherently express why they think Trump will do what they consider to be a good job. People will fire off platitudes like "the economy!" but without anything to back it up, so it feels like cover for their real reasons for voting for him.

I just don't get it.
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Those categories are spot-on. Well said.
 
Eliana

Eliana

Member
9-10ths_Penguin said:
This is the sort of thing I hear from Trump supporters that makes it difficult to see Trump's appeal.

I really do get the sense that Trump supporters generally fall into a few categories:

- anti-choicers who don't like him, but are willing to vote for anyone who will appoint anti-abortion judges

- people who see his racism, misogyny and xenophobia as positives, not negatives

- people who just want to metaphorically burn the whole system down and see Trump as the guy to do it, or

- people whose Republican party affiliation is such a part of their identity that they'd never think to vote for anyone else.


Except for the second category, I see very few people who can coherently express why they think Trump will do what they consider to be a good job. People will fire off platitudes like "the economy!" but without anything to back it up, so it feels like cover for their real reasons for voting for him.

I just don't get it.
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A lot of it is white Christian nationalism, culture war nonsense and simple hatred for "Liberals". The reason none of the chargers or his conduct affect him is because they just don't care.
 
Twilight Hue

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Kenny said:
That is not the real picture. When they reduce taxes, they reduce everyon's taxes because it is an overall reduction of taxes. It will include the rich.

Hopefully, they will get Musk’s wisdom and reduce government spending by 2 TRILLION dollars to finance the reduction is taxes.
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I'm impressed that Trump has a lot of very very smart people behind him and I can't wait to see who is going to be chosen for his cabinet.
 
S

Sumadji

Active Member
Wandering Monk said:
An women can't imagine themselves in a room alone with the rapist Donald Trump.

Anyway, the only person who would be alone in the room with Putin are his friends. Trump is a Russian asset.
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Whatever. You know what I mean. Harris wasn't the right candidate to impress the world stage. Biden can be imagined in a one-to-one with Putin. Not Harris. She was a bad 'realpolitik' choice for the time.
 
anna.

anna.

colors your eyes with what's not there
Twilight Hue said:
Typo. Had to fix it but the lag doesn't help make corrections and editing quicker , but I got to admit my mistake was pretty funny.
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So you shudder (not shutter) to think how she would handle the pressure of foreign relations?

Thanks for illustrating my comment from earlier today. America's not ready for a woman to be president. Too many misogynists.
 
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