A big invisible man who created the universe

[Storm]

Prometheus:
de·lu·sion
1. an act or instance of deluding.
2. the state of being deluded.
3. a false belief or opinion: delusions of grandeur.
4. Psychiatry. a fixed false belief that is resistant to reason or confrontation with actual fact: a paranoid delusion.

A delusion is demonstrably false, at best, a symptom of severe mental illness in actuality. Neither you nor anyone else has provided me with such a demonstration.

Furthermore,
1) You're obviously unqualified to diagnose me with a debilitating mental illness. If you were qualified, you'd know that

2) You simply cannot arrive at such a diagnosis over the internet

3) Even ignoring 1 & 2, due to the fact that life can suck, I've got 7 psychiatric evaluations, and 2 psychological that say otherwise, so shove it where the sun don't shine.

When you're ready to have a civil conversation instead of resorting to ad hominem attacks which essentially accuse me of stupidity at best or insanity at worst, let me know.

Til then, I'll just put you down as yet another religious bigot who can't cope with the fact that people disagree with you.

God, atheist fundies are the worst of the lot.

P.S. Calling me wrong is fine. That's not what you're doing. Wrong =/= delusional. And yes, to imply that someone is literally insane because they disagree with you IS ad hom.

 

[Willamena]

So, assuming we have no evidence of the Lochness Monster, believing in it and not believing in it are equally valid positions?

No; belief is always based on knowledge, and knowledge is derived from evidence. The logical conclusion is that those who believe in 'god' have evidence.

 

[Prometheus]

Prometheus:
de·lu·sion
1. an act or instance of deluding.
2. the state of being deluded.
3. a false belief or opinion: delusions of grandeur.
4. Psychiatry. a fixed false belief that is resistant to reason or confrontation with actual fact: a paranoid delusion.

A delusion is demonstrably false, at best, a symptom of severe mental illness in actuality. Neither you nor anyone else has provided me with such a demonstration.

"Demonstratively false" doesn't appear in your definition. It just says false.

Furthermore,
1) You're obviously unqualified to diagnose me with a debilitating mental illness. If you were qualified, you'd know that

2) You simply cannot arrive at such a diagnosis over the internet

"Mental illness" doesn't appear in your definition.

3) Even ignoring 1 & 2, due to the fact that life can suck, I've got 7 psychiatric evaluations, and 2 psychological that say otherwise, so shove it where the sun don't shine.

So because you have had these evaluations it's now impossible for you to believe any falsehood whatsoever? You must be a human lie detector.

When you're ready to have a civil conversation instead of resorting to ad hominem attacks which essentially accuse me of stupidity at best or insanity at worst, let me know.

Please show where I attacked you personally. Calling you deluded is not an attack. Calling your beliefs wrong is not an attack. Neither of these make any statement about you or your intelligence. They denote only that you believe in falsehoods.

If Albert Einstein thought the moon was made of cheese, he'd be simultaneously deluded and one of the most intelligent people in history.

Til then, I'll just put you down as yet another religious bigot who can't cope with the fact that people disagree with you.

I cope with you disagreeing with me just fine. It's why you disagree with me that I'm having trouble grasping.

Disagreement does not equal intolerance, for the final time.

 

[Storm]

No; belief is always based on knowledge, and knowledge is derived from evidence. The logical conclusion is that those who believe in 'god' have evidence.

Thank you! Fancy that, assuming people have valid reasons for what they believe!

 

[lunamoth]

No; belief is always based on knowledge, and knowledge is derived from evidence. The logical conclusion is that those who believe in 'god' have evidence.

Those who have seen Nessie believe in her.

Having faith in something that is based upon subjective experience is not 'bad,' even if that faith is really outlandish to the rest of humanity. What can make faith 'bad' is when it causes harm to the person or makes them cause harm to others. A lot of that has happened. But it still does not make faith bad.

Added: in case that's not clear...I'm agreeing with you wil! (made more sense with Nessie quote you replied to, but that did not show up)

 

[Storm]

Fine. Since you need it sppon-fed to you, here's another one:
de·lu·sion

(dĭ-lōō'zhən) Pronunciation Key
n.

1. 1. The act or process of deluding.
   2. The state of being deluded.
2. A false belief or opinion: labored under the delusion that success was at hand.
3. Psychiatry A false belief strongly held in spite of invalidating evidence, especially as a symptom of mental illness: delusions of persecution.

Do you honestly expect me to believe that you are unable to understand why this term is inaccurate and offensive? Because that would require me to believe that you are a social idiot, at the least.

 

[Prometheus]

No; belief is always based on knowledge, and knowledge is derived from evidence. The logical conclusion is that those who believe in 'god' have evidence.

Personal experience is not evidence. We've been through this. I can't deny that someone has had a personal experience proving to them that there is a God. I can deny they have evidence.

 

[Willamena]

Those who have seen Nessie believe in her.

Some, just so; some are skeptical. Belief isn't necessary, but knowledge is necessary for belief, and evidence for knowledge, even if that evidence cannot be shared.

Having faith in something that is based upon subjective experience is not 'bad,' even if that faith is really outlandish to the rest of humanity.

Just so.

Added: in case that's not clear...I'm agreeing with you wil! (made more sense with Nessie quote you replied to, but that did not show up)

Okie.

 

[Willamena]

Personal experience is not evidence. We've been through this. I can't deny that someone has had a personal experience proving to them that there is a God. I can deny they have evidence.

It is evidence of the senses. Logical and deductive reasoning are also evidence. Your imposed criteria for what constitutes evidence is a bit limiting.

 

[JESUSDIEDFORUS!]

God Created the Universe, he create you and me.(Genesis 1:1, Psalms 100:3).

God loves us deeply.(John 3:15 1 John 4:9)

God is perfect holy and just. He punishes evil removing it from his presence.(Romans 1:8 )

We were created in God's image to have a relationship with him.(Genesis 1:27, Revelation 21:3).

We rebelled and turned away from God. (Isaiah 53:6, Romans 5:23)

Our disobedience (sin) has separated us from God.(Isaiah 59:2)

The penalty for our sin is death(physical and spiritual).(Romans 6:23).

God became a human being in the person of Jesus to restore our life and fellowship with him. Jesus Christ who lived life without sin died on the cross to take the punishment of rebellion against God. Only through his sacrifice could be forgiven of sin.(Isaiah 53-5:6).
I pray that you find the truth in Christ. We have to defeat Satan in order win this spiritual warfare, and that is by accepting Christ as your Lord and Savior. I'm not asking you to convert, I'm only giving you something to think about. I can only pray.:shout

 

[Prometheus]

Fine. Since you need it sppon-fed to you, here's another one:
de·lu·sion

(dĭ-lōō'zhən) Pronunciation Key
n.

1. 1. The act or process of deluding.
   2. The state of being deluded.
2. A false belief or opinion: labored under the delusion that success was at hand.
3. Psychiatry A false belief strongly held in spite of invalidating evidence, especially as a symptom of mental illness: delusions of persecution.

Do you honestly expect me to believe that you are unable to understand why this term is inaccurate and offensive?

Offensive, maybe. Inaccurate, hardly. Ad hominem is defined by the persons intent to insult. It has nothing to do with how one interprets it. If you were offended by being called a homo sapien, well, there's nothing I can do about that. So you're offended, but it's not an ad hominem.

Because that would require me to believe that you are a social idiot, at the least.

Now that would be an example of ad hominem.

 

[Willamena]

God Created the Universe, he create you and me...

Let's all hold hands and proselytize together! Kumbaya, my Lord, kumbaya...

 

[Storm]

So because you have had these evaluations it's now impossible for you to believe any falsehood whatsoever? You must be a human lie detector.

Noooooooooo, it means that people far more qualified than you have concluded that I am not delusional.

Please show where I attacked you personally

Why? I already have, and you're jst trying to defend it:

Calling you deluded is not an attack.

Obviously, I disagree. Calling somebody deluded is either in reference to a legitimate, diagnosible mental illness, or a personal insult because you don't like their ideas. I could accept that it was an unintentional insult, had you simply admitted your error. An apology wouldn't have hurt either. That's what socially competent people do when they unintentionally offend someone. You, on the other hand, have gone on about how it's not offensive because it's "true."

They denote only that you believe in falsehoods.

And here is where the bigotry comes into play. When you cannot accept that someone who disagrees with you might have a valid reason for disagreement, but is deluded, you are intolerant.

I have made it quite clear that I disagree with you, yet I have not insulted your mental competence.

I cope with you disagreeing with me just fine. It's why you disagree with me that I'm having trouble grasping.

Then try asking questions, instead of flinging insults.

Disagreement does not equal intolerance, for the final time.

And I haven't once claimed that it does, for the final time.

 

[lunamoth]

Let's all hold hands and proselytize together! Kumbaya, my Lord, kumbaya...

:biglaugh:

And here I am unable to frubal you again... :sad4:


Remember when these little guys were so popular around the forum? : hamster :

 

[Prometheus]

It is evidence of the senses. Logical and deductive reasoning are also evidence. Your imposed criteria for what constitutes evidence is a bit limiting.

If it can't be shared, it's not evidence. Evidence is indicative and outward. Personal experience is...personal. It doesn't apply to anyone else. I'll say it again. You believing in unicorns is not evidence that they exist to anyone else but yourself. I want evidence that can be shared. If you can't provide that then why should I not question you about it? Would you rather everyone just went on their merry way and never challenged anyone else's opinions?

 

[Storm]

Inaccurate, hardly.

Inaccurate, extremely, since you cannot provide any evidence for the falsehood of my beliefs.

Now that would be an example of ad hominem.

No, that's actually what it would require.

 

[Willamena]

If it can't be shared, it's not evidence. Evidence is indicative and outward. Personal experience is...personal. It doesn't apply to anyone else. I'll say it again. You believing in unicorns is not evidence that they exist to anyone else but yourself. I want evidence that can be shared. If you can't provide that then why should I not question you about it? Would you rather everyone just went on their merry way and never challenged anyone else's opinions?

Who says it cannot be shared? I would say judging by the number of people who find signfiicant imagry in related mythology to mean similar things to them personally and individually that it is shared by all world religions.

It is shared in a non-literal manner, through symbolism and metaphor. I myself garnered the image of god through a discussion of, believe it or not, language.

PS: Questioning is the ONLY way to go.

 

[Prometheus]

Inaccurate, extremely, since you cannot provide any evidence for the falsehood of my beliefs.

Sigh.

Okay Storm.

I believe there is a magical leprechaun living in my closet. I know he's there from personal experience. I just can't show that to anyone else because every time someone opens the closet, he disappears. In fact, every time anyone tries to discover his existence or detect him in any way at all, he disappears. He only can be seen by me and me alone.

Since you can't prove that he doesn't exist, because I know for absolute fact for myself that he does, you have no basis to call me deluded. What I believe is true no matter what you think. In fact, I am deeply offended that you would dare to challenge my belief in this magical leprechaun. If you can't accept that I'm right and leave it at that, if you challenge my beliefs, then you must be an idiot.

 

[Prometheus]

Who says it cannot be shared?

Storm did.

 

[Willamena]

Storm did.

Having had it shared with me, I happen to disagree.