A huge problem with the JW religion:

[TiggerII]

Is. 45
5" I am Jehovah, and there is no one else.
There is no God except me.
I will strengthen you, although you did not know me,
6 In order that people may know
From the rising of the sun to its setting
That there is none besides me.
I am Jehovah, and there is no one else."

makes it rather plane [sic] there is but one true God.
-------------------------------

Jehovah is the Father alone - Isaiah 64:8
The Father is the only true God - John 17:1, 3.

 

[cataway]

did you note it did not say 5" we are Jehovah, and there is no others like us
There is no God except us
I will strengthen you, although you did not know us
6 In order that people may know
From the rising of the sun to its setting
That there is none besides us"

what it does say
I am Jehovah, and there is no one else."

 

[coconut theology]

Ask a question.

Could we do so in a separate thread, not this one?

 

[kjw47]

Could we do so in a separate thread, not this one?

if you want to. Let me know what it is, ok?

 

[Subduction Zone]

if you want to. Let me know what it is, ok?

You can always start your own thread. Do you need help? Think of a topic. Click on or tap "FORUMS" at the top of the page. That will take you to a page where you can see all of the various categories. Open the one that seems to fit your topic the best and click on "Post New Thread". When it opens name your thread and write the first post.

 

[coconut theology]

if you want to. Let me know what it is, ok?

Ok, link here - A dialogue about Prophecy & doctrines between the WTS/JW & Seventh-day Adventist

 

[sojourner]

did you note it did not say 5" we are Jehovah, and there is no others like us
There is no God except us
I will strengthen you, although you did not know us
6 In order that people may know
From the rising of the sun to its setting
That there is none besides us"

what it does say
I am Jehovah, and there is no one else."

In Gen 3 God refers to God’s self in the plural. How do you excuse that?

 

[sooda]

In Gen 3 God refers to God’s self in the plural. How do you excuse that?

Its a problem.

Elohim is a word in the Hebrew Bible, which sometimes means deities in the plural, and elsewhere refers to a single deity, particularly (but not always) the Jewish God.
The word is identical to the usual plural of el, meaning gods or magistrates, and is cognate to the 'l-h-m found in Ugaritic, where it is used for the pantheon of Canaanite gods, the children of El, and conventionally vocalized as "Elohim".

 

[sojourner]

Its a problem.

Elohim is a word in the Hebrew Bible, which sometimes means deities in the plural, and elsewhere refers to a single deity, particularly (but not always) the Jewish God.
The word is identical to the usual plural of el, meaning gods or magistrates, and is cognate to the 'l-h-m found in Ugaritic, where it is used for the pantheon of Canaanite gods, the children of El, and conventionally vocalized as "Elohim".

Plural. God. Please note that the Elohist is a different source from the Yahwist. Ergo, there are different ways of viewing God, Even in the Bible. The Elohist does not appear to be monotheistic in the strict sense; more a henotheist. The Yahwist also appears to have a different idea of monotheism from that of modern thought. I’m not convinced that one can use any “proof” from the Tanakh to bolster the strict monotheism of later thought.

 

[sooda]

Plural. God. Please note that the Elohist is a different source from the Yahwist. Ergo, there are different ways of viewing God, Even in the Bible. The Elohist does not appear to be monotheistic in the strict sense; more a henotheist. The Yahwist also appears to have a different idea of monotheism from that of modern thought. I’m not convinced that one can use any “proof” from the Tanakh to bolster the strict monotheism of later thought.

Fascinating to me.. I don't think they were strictly monotheists and they did come from a tradition of multiple Canaanite deities.

Henotheism definition is - the worship of one god without denying the existence of other gods.

 

[cataway]

In Gen 3 God refers to God’s self in the plural. How do you excuse that?

GENESIS 3:?

 

[TiggerII]

GENESIS 3:?

I think Sojourner meant Gen. 1:26 or Gen. 3:22.

So why can't Jehovah be speaking to his angels? Or to his only-begotten Son?

 

[sojourner]

Fascinating to me.. I don't think they were strictly monotheists and they did come from a tradition of multiple Canaanite deities.

Henotheism definition is - the worship of one god without denying the existence of other gods.

Correct. The early Hebrews were henotheistic. They only developed a strict monotheistic outlook as they were overtaken and exiled as a way to differentiate themselves from their polytheistic captors. This monotheism became so important to them that they were unable to accept the resurrection of Jesus (the dead were powerful, and a resurrected person would necessarily be godlike). The JWs seem to have adopted this very strict, almost fearful monotheistic stance against the more lax stance of Trinitarianism.

 

[sojourner]

I think Sojourner meant Gen. 1:26 or Gen. 3:22.

So why can't Jehovah be speaking to his angels? Or to his only-begotten Son?

Likely because A) Jesus isn’t in the OT, and B) isn’t begotten yet in Genesis.

 

[Milton Platt]

This video shows the heartache that the JW policy of dissociation can cause:

Obviously the Atheist Experience is not going to be pro-JW. But they treated this ex-JW with far more kindness than the man's church did.

I follow this show regularly and watched this as a streaming event. I personally k ow someone who was a JW and who left. Their family caught all kinds of hell from those people. maybe it varies from place to place, I don't know. And I can say that I have invited JW's in for a conversation now and again. I generally butcher them at the table, but they asked for it.......Not that I am mean-spirited...it's just that I seem to know more about the Bible and Christian history than they do.

 

[sojourner]

GENESIS 3:?

Really?

 

[sojourner]

I follow this show regularly and watched this as a streaming event. I personally k ow someone who was a JW and who left. Their family caught all kinds of hell from those people. maybe it varies from place to place, I don't know. And I can say that I have invited JW's in for a conversation now and again. I generally butcher them at the table, but they asked for it.......Not that I am mean-spirited...it's just that I seem to know more about the Bible and Christian history than they do.

I’m not surprised. Their interpretations and history are seriously revisionist.

 

[cataway]

In Gen 3 God refers to God’s self in the plural. How do you excuse that?

oh I was not aware you were not reading with comprehension . he was not talking to him self .he was talking to a lesser one his master worker ,the word .(Jesus)
Proverbs 8:29 ''When he set a decree for the sea
That its waters should not pass beyond his order,
When he established the foundations of the earth,
30 Then I was beside him as a master worker.
I was the one he was especially fond of day by day;
I rejoiced before him all the time;
31 I rejoiced over his habitable earth,
And I was especially fond of the sons of men.''

 

[sojourner]

oh I was not aware you were not reading with comprehension . he was not talking to him self .he was talking to a lesser one his master worker ,the word .(Jesus)

Oh! I was unaware that you were proof-texting rather than treating the texts with respect. 1) Jesus Does. Not. Appear. In. The. Hebrew. Texts. 2) No “master worker” appears in Genesis. 3) The NT Does. Not. Inform the Hebrew texts. 4) Proverbs does not inform Genesis. Genesis is Genesis and must be read as Genesis — not as your “idea” of what Genesis “ought” to be.

Got over yourself. I have a graduate degree in biblical studies. I don’t “read without comprehension.”

 

[cataway]

oh well maybe you just missed
COLOSSIANS 1:15-17

15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation; 16 because by means of him all other things were created in the heavens and on the earth, the things visible and the things invisible, whether they are thrones or lordships or governments or authorities. All other things have been created through him and for him. 17 Also, he is before all other things, and by means of him all other things were made to exist,

I should also add Romans 16
"25 Now to Him who can make you firm according to the good news I declare and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the sacred secret that has been kept in silence for long-lasting times 26 but has now been made manifest and has been made known through the prophetic Scriptures among all the nations according to the command of the everlasting God to promote obedience by faith; 27 to God, who alone is wise, be the glory through Jesus Christ forever. Amen."

the Word (Jesus) ,was not just watching his God doing his creative works ,he actually had a part in making it all happen .
why was he not reveled in Genesis ?? quite frankly ,you/we did not need to know