A proposed solution for Young Earth Creationism

[ecco]

We read it all, we just happen to understand context and overall biblical story better.

Please explain the context and rationale for these war crimes...

Numbers 31
15And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive? 16Behold, these caused the children of Israel, through the counsel of Balaam, to commit trespass against the LORD in the matter of Peor, and there was a plague among the congregation of the LORD. 17Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. 18But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.


Numbers 31
25And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, 26Take the sum of the prey that was taken, both of man and of beast, thou, and Eleazar the priest, and the chief fathers of the congregation: 27And divide the prey into two parts; between them that took the war upon them, who went out to battle, and between all the congregation: 28And levy a tribute unto the LORD of the men of war which went out to battle: one soul of five hundred, both of the persons, and of the beeves, and of the asses, and of the sheep: 29Take it of their half, and give it unto Eleazar the priest, for an heave offering of the LORD. 30And of the children of Israel's half, thou shalt take one portion of fifty, of the persons, of the beeves, of the asses, and of the flocks, of all manner of beasts, and give them unto the Levites, which keep the charge of the tabernacle of the LORD. 31And Moses and Eleazar the priest did as the LORD commanded Moses.

32And the booty, being the rest of the prey which the men of war had caught, was six hundred thousand and seventy thousand and five thousand sheep, 33And threescore and twelve thousand beeves, 34And threescore and one thousand asses, 35And thirty and two thousand persons in all, of women that had not known man by lying with him.

 

[ecco]

I haven't seen any conflicts in who was at the tomb.

Of course, you haven't. At least nothing that a little rationalizing won't fix.

Thanks to @Valjean for posting the verses and thanks to you for providing the expected rationalizing. Especially this part...

and they also show they weren’t based on collusion.

 

[ecco]

Lol, that's pretty funny considering that over 90% of the people in the world believe in God.

Ninety percent of people the world over believe in A god - Not in YOUR God.
Most people the world over believe your god is a false god.

What's your point?

 

[ElishaElijah]

Please explain the context and rationale for these war crimes...

Only war crimes I see in the story are from Balaam and Balack, they should have left God’s people alone. Balack wanted to destroy them and drive them out of the area. They had multiple warnings. Where was the hospitality from Balack? The love and acceptance?

 

[Wildswanderer]

Ninety percent of people the world over believe in A god - Not in YOUR God.
Most people the world over believe your god is a false god.

What's your point?

It's still an almost universal belief. We just disagree on the details.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Please explain the context and rationale for these war crimes...

Numbers 31
15And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive? 16Behold, these caused the children of Israel, through the counsel of Balaam, to commit trespass against the LORD in the matter of Peor, and there was a plague among the congregation of the LORD. 17Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. 18But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.


Numbers 31
25And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, 26Take the sum of the prey that was taken, both of man and of beast, thou, and Eleazar the priest, and the chief fathers of the congregation: 27And divide the prey into two parts; between them that took the war upon them, who went out to battle, and between all the congregation: 28And levy a tribute unto the LORD of the men of war which went out to battle: one soul of five hundred, both of the persons, and of the beeves, and of the asses, and of the sheep: 29Take it of their half, and give it unto Eleazar the priest, for an heave offering of the LORD. 30And of the children of Israel's half, thou shalt take one portion of fifty, of the persons, of the beeves, of the asses, and of the flocks, of all manner of beasts, and give them unto the Levites, which keep the charge of the tabernacle of the LORD. 31And Moses and Eleazar the priest did as the LORD commanded Moses.

32And the booty, being the rest of the prey which the men of war had caught, was six hundred thousand and seventy thousand and five thousand sheep, 33And threescore and twelve thousand beeves, 34And threescore and one thousand asses, 35And thirty and two thousand persons in all, of women that had not known man by lying with him.

What is a war crime, first of all? You believe some things are off limits in war due to living in a post Christian era, where Christian principles have been applied to the acts of war, regarding what is permissible and what isn't
At Moses time, there were no such rules. Second I suspect you think of children as innocent.
Regular behaviors among the Midianites included child sacrifice, cult prostitution, and bestiality.

In my opinion, God chose this option to keep his people from being corrupted by such practices. It's one thing to say something is God's will in a circumstance where his will has already been broken by everyone and another in a perfect world.
The Midianites had corrupted God’s people by leading them into idolatry at Baal-Peor so that 24,000 Israelites died in the plague (Num. 25:9). It was necessary to totally eliminate this evil influence from Israel.
Is this a lesser of two evils answer? From a human 21 century perspective we see it that way... but that was the world of tribal warfare.

 

[ecco]

Please explain the context and rationale for these war crimes...

Numbers 31
15And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive? 16Behold, these caused the children of Israel, through the counsel of Balaam, to commit trespass against the LORD in the matter of Peor, and there was a plague among the congregation of the LORD. 17Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. 18But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.

Only war crimes I see in the story are from Balaam and Balack, they should have left God’s people alone. Balack wanted to destroy them and drive them out of the area. They had multiple warnings. Where was the hospitality from Balack? The love and acceptance?

I suppose that when someone believes it's OK for their god to destroy all of humanity and all plants and animals except for a handful, nothing is too atrocious, everything can be justified and rationalized.

Your attitude is, "The bad guys shouldn't have ****ed with God's people. But since they did, God's people were justified in killing their wives and sons and raping their young daughters".

That's the same way the German people felt about the Jews, "The Jews are ****ing with us good German Christians, so let's just gas them all.

That's the same way European Christians feel about the witches, "You evil witches are ****ing with us good European Christians, so we are going to burn you alive by the tens of thousands".

 

[ecco]

It's still an almost universal belief. We just disagree on the details.

NONSENSE! You can try to deny or ignore that most of the world's people consider your god to be just-so stories, but that doesn't change the facts.

 

[Valjean]

Lol, that's pretty funny considering that over 90% of the people in the world believe in God.
Can a myth really change your life? I like super hero movies, but I would not say they changed my life. Jesus certainly did. And even though I am a poor follower, he still does.

Have you noticed what percentage of people at least nominally accept the religion of their family? Why do you think that is, incisive apologetics, or indoctrination beginning at a pre-rational age?

90% of people never thought about their religion, they just accepted what they were taught and go along with the social norm. Most couldn't intelligently discuss even their own religion, much less any others. Most couldn't tell you why they believe their religion is the true one, or give any evidence in its defense.
So no. Your ad populum doesn't hold water.

Certainly a myth can change your life. Take your religion, for example. It was therapeutic for you, so you take that as evidence of its objective truth, despite the fact that many other people employing different religions and psychotherapeutic modalities have the same success.
Consider the many popular religious movements and cults that arise all the time, and often fade away just as quickly. Do you think the Ghost Dance religion didn't change the lives of the Plains Indians in the 1890s?

 

[Valjean]

So…that’s your opinion and you coming from a lack of experience for yourself, which is fine, you’re entitled.

Experience? What's experience have to do with anything? People experience all sorts of transformative beliefs all the time. Are all these transformations evidence that the particular modality in question is objectively true?

You’re saying no evidence and there is lots of evidence, you just don’t believe the evidence, while I do because the evidence the believers wrote by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit as the Bible says, lines up with my experience with God as well, the Spirit of God bears witness to me of the Truth. This is my confidence.

There is not lots of evidence. If there were we'd have One World Religion, just as we have a worldwide physics, chemistry, and biology. Do you understand how to evaluate evidence properly?

What 'inspired' people wrote is not evidence! A Muslim or Hindu could make the same claims. Are they all true?

 

[Valjean]

It's still an almost universal belief. We just disagree on the details.

These "gods" are often completely different from yours. Not all are creators, not all are omniscient or omnipotent. Many are mere spirits. Not all are unitary. Many are multifarious.
And almost every one of these believers believe not because they've examined and critically analyzed hard evidence. They weren't convinced by empirical evidence. They were indoctrinated as children. Their belief is based on feeling.

 

[Valjean]

What is a war crime, first of all? You believe some things are off limits in war due to living in a post Christian era, where Christian principles have been applied to the acts of war, regarding what is permissible and what isn't
At Moses time, there were no such rules. Second I suspect you think of children as innocent.
Regular behaviors among the Midianites included child sacrifice, cult prostitution, and bestiality.

I thought you Christians didn't believe in situational ethics, or different ethics for different people at different times. Isn't God's law eternal and unchanging? How do you know your religion/interpretation isn't the heretical one?

In my opinion, God chose this option to keep his people from being corrupted by such practices. It's one thing to say something is God's will in a circumstance where his will has already been broken by everyone and another in a perfect world.
The Midianites had corrupted God’s people by leading them into idolatry at Baal-Peor so that 24,000 Israelites died in the plague (Num. 25:9). It was necessary to totally eliminate this evil influence from Israel.
Is this a lesser of two evils answer? From a human 21 century perspective we see it that way... but that was the world of tribal warfare.

Hear, hear! Spoken like a true ISIS believer.

"God's option" seems more corrupt than anything the Non-Chosen could have been doing. Any atrocity was OK if it enforced your own version of propriety?

So when did annihilating foreign tribes become not OK -- or didn't it?

 

[Valjean]

I would not assume they actually know the scripture. Usually nonbelievers just know a few select verses, that they use out of context.

And yet testing and numerous surveys find quite the opposite to be true; that atheists know more about specific religions, religious tradition and religious history than do the religious.

 

[Valjean]

If God didn’t show up or speak anything to me that would be blind faith without evidence, seen as He did for me that’s my evidence.

How is your evidence different from hearsay, imagination or delusion?

 

[Wildswanderer]

These "gods" are often completely different from yours. Not all are creators, not all are omniscient or omnipotent. Many are mere spirits. Not all are unitary. Many are multifarious.
And almost every one of these believers believe not because they've examined and critically analyzed hard evidence. They weren't convinced by empirical evidence. They were indoctrinated as children. Their belief is based on feeling.

That's your opinion. Only lots of people are converted to various religions, and most people who would not describe themselves as religious still believe in God.

 

[Wildswanderer]

So when did annihilating foreign tribes become not OK -- or didn't it?

We are in an era of grace since the resurrection. God doesn't generally just kill people for their sins now, even though they deserve it.

 

[Wildswanderer]

And yet testing and numerous surveys find quite the opposite to be true; that atheists know more about specific religions, religious tradition and religious history than do the religious.

We were speaking specifically of the Bible. Although biblical illiteracy has certainly reached epic proportions among all populations in the United States, what I see atheists doing is cherry picking verses to support their view.

 

[Valjean]

That's your opinion. Only lots of people are converted to various religions, and most people who would not describe themselves as religious still believe in God.

That's not my opinion. That's a fact.

We were speaking specifically of the Bible. Although biblical illiteracy has certainly reached epic proportions among all populations in the United States, what I see atheists doing is cherry picking verses to support their view.

As opposed to the believers, who never cherry pick whatever doctrine conforms to the social norms of the day.

 

[ecco]

What is a war crime, first of all? You believe some things are off limits in war due to living in a post Christian era, where Christian principles have been applied to the acts of war, regarding what is permissible and what isn't

Perhaps you need to re-read my post of examples. These all occurred after your Christ. These were all perpetrated in the name of your God. The only difference is that it wasn't Moses ordering the brutality.

At Moses time, there were no such rules.

That's part of my argument. Your god cares nothing for civility. To him, brutality was ordered and condoned. It's been that way since the OT and his followers have carried on in that same spirit since then to this very day.

Second I suspect you think of children as innocent.
Regular behaviors among the Midianites included child sacrifice, cult prostitution, and bestiality.

Right, there was child prostitution and you blame the children. I'm really glad that I am not a Christian with barbaric views such as yours.




ETA: Just saw this...

We are in an era of grace since the resurrection. God doesn't generally just kill people for their sins now, even though they deserve it.

God didn't kill people in the examples I gave either. His followers did it with his acceptance. Just as his followers in Europe killed tens of thousands of witches. Just as his followers gassed millions of Jews.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Perhaps you need to re-read my post of examples. These all occurred after your Christ. These were all perpetrated in the name of your God. The only difference is that it wasn't Moses ordering the brutality.



That's part of my argument. Your god cares nothing for civility. To him, brutality was ordered and condoned. It's been that way since the OT and his followers have carried on in that same spirit since then to this very day.



Right, there was child prostitution and you blame the children. I'm really glad that I am not a Christian with barbaric views such as yours.




ETA: Just saw this...


God didn't kill people in the examples I gave either. His followers did it with his acceptance. Just as his followers in Europe killed tens of thousands of witches. Just as his followers gassed millions of Jews.

Well if you want to play that game, we can add all the people killed by athiestic governments. Any religion can be used to justify anything. What's your point?