A Universe from Nothing?

[ArtieE]

Did you just not say that "atoms are standing waves"?

Did you read the text I linked to?

 

[godnotgod]

Did you read the text I linked to?

Most of it, yes, but you made a blanket statement that 'atoms are standing waves'. Is that what you want to say?

Your reference differentiates between virtual and real particles. But what is a real particle?

ben d's link points to all particles as being waves:

https://web.archive.org/web/20110711095644/http://www.glafreniere.com/matter.htm

Because 'particles' are now seen as the result of field fluctuations, science is now studying 'Quantum Field Theory', because the particle is all about the field.

 

[godnotgod]

Yes, that is correct.....All things being equal, an Electron will endure forever.... But in the zpe 'sea' surrounding say the permanent 'particle', there are ubiquitous virtual particles popping into and out of existence.....and the only difference between these virtual and actual is that wrt the virtual particles, the center where in and out waves begin the resonate as a standing wave is not stable, and soon the in out waves get out of phase and thus the resonance ceases and thus wave collapses...only for another to try and reform in that space...endlessly.. Once you get the 'picture', you will see how Photons form as temporary 'particle' standing waves when a permanent Electron particle gains excess energy and begins to become unstable....thus the temporary Photon moves towards another Electron that in a state appropriate for absorbing the Photon energy..

So as I understand it, both virtual and actual particles are still waves, with one more stable than the other?

 

[Ben Dhyan]

So as I understand it, both virtual and actual particles are still waves, with one more stable than the other?

Yes...more or less...actual 'particles' never collapse back into the underlying zpe ocean whereas virtual 'particles' collapse back into the zpe ocean before they reach full resonance.. Btw, the virtual 'particles' are of two kinds.....and clouds of virtual positrons (anti-electrons) tend to form around/near electrons due to opposite electric charges...

 

[godnotgod]

Yes...more or less...actual 'particles' never collapse back into the underlying zpe ocean whereas virtual 'particles' collapse back into the zpe ocean before they reach full resonance.. Btw, the virtual 'particles' are of two kinds.....and clouds of virtual positrons (anti-electrons) tend to form around/near electrons due to opposite electric charges...

So would you say that ultimately, the 'materiality' of the atom is just waves?

 

[Ben Dhyan]

So would you say that ultimately, the 'materiality' of the atom is just waves?

Yes...I would describe an atom as a complex standing wave constituted of various spherical standing waves....and sustained by energy waves of the zpe 'ocean'... The difference between a standing wave and just a wave is that with the former...there is resonant circulating energy such that it can appear to be stationary, whereas with normal waves....the energy appears to travel at or near light speed... But the circulating resonant energy of the 'particles' that constitute the atom and the ubiquitous wave energy of space...is the same energy....

 

[psychoslice]

in didn't release the we had such great scientist here on SF.

 

[godnotgod]

Yes...I would describe an atom as a complex standing wave constituted of various spherical standing waves....and sustained by energy waves of the zpe 'ocean'... The difference between a standing wave and just a wave is that with the former...there is resonant circulating energy such that it can appear to be stationary, whereas with normal waves....the energy appears to travel at or near light speed... But the circulating resonant energy of the 'particles' that constitute the atom and the ubiquitous wave energy of space...is the same energy....

Very well, then.

For myself, I would say that the next question is whether consciousness is associated in some way with the atom. Max Planck came to the conclusion that there is:

“All matter originates and exists only by virtue of a force which brings the particle of an atom to vibration and holds this most minute solar system of the atom together.
We must assume behind this force the existence of a conscious and intelligent mind. This mind is the matrix of all matter.”
― Max Planck

...and now, Freeman Dyson sees consciousness and intelligence there as well:

“It is remarkable that mind enters into our awareness of nature on two separate levels. At the highest level, the level of human consciousness, our minds are somehow directly aware of the complicated flow of electrical and chemical patterns in our brains. At the lowest level, the level of single atoms and electrons, the mind of an observer is again involved in the description of events. Between lies the level of molecular biology, where mechanical models are adequate and mind appears to be irrelevant. But I, as a physicist, cannot help suspecting that there is a logical connection between the two ways in which mind appears in my universe. I cannot help thinking that our awareness of our own brains has something to do with the process which we call "observation" in atomic physics. That is to say, I think our consciousness is not just a passive epiphenomenon carried along by the chemical events in our brains, but is an active agent forcing the molecular complexes to make choices between one quantum state and another. In other words, mind is already inherent in every electron, and the processes of human consciousness differ only in degree but not in kind from the processes of choice between quantum states which we call "chance" when they are made by electrons.”

― Freeman Dyson

 

[psychoslice]

in didn't release the we had such great scientist here on SF.

Ha, I meant I didn't realize....shame.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Very well, then.

For myself, I would say that the next question is whether consciousness is associated in some way with the atom. Max Planck came to the conclusion that there is:

“All matter originates and exists only by virtue of a force which brings the particle of an atom to vibration and holds this most minute solar system of the atom together.
We must assume behind this force the existence of a conscious and intelligent mind. This mind is the matrix of all matter.”
― Max Planck

...and now, Freeman Dyson sees consciousness and intelligence there as well:

“It is remarkable that mind enters into our awareness of nature on two separate levels. At the highest level, the level of human consciousness, our minds are somehow directly aware of the complicated flow of electrical and chemical patterns in our brains. At the lowest level, the level of single atoms and electrons, the mind of an observer is again involved in the description of events. Between lies the level of molecular biology, where mechanical models are adequate and mind appears to be irrelevant. But I, as a physicist, cannot help suspecting that there is a logical connection between the two ways in which mind appears in my universe. I cannot help thinking that our awareness of our own brains has something to do with the process which we call "observation" in atomic physics. That is to say, I think our consciousness is not just a passive epiphenomenon carried along by the chemical events in our brains, but is an active agent forcing the molecular complexes to make choices between one quantum state and another. In other words, mind is already inherent in every electron, and the processes of human consciousness differ only in degree but not in kind from the processes of choice between quantum states which we call "chance" when they are made by electrons.”

― Freeman Dyson

Max Planck's observation and assumption look good to me.....

 

[godnotgod]

Max Planck's observation and assumption look good to me.....

re: "This mind is the matrix of all matter.”

I found it interesting that the word 'matrix', used here by Planck, has the original meanings of 'mater' or 'mother' and 'womb'.

matrix

1. something that constitutes the place or point from which something else originates, takes form, or develops:
The Greco-Roman world was the matrix for Western civilization.

Origin of matrix
Middle English
Latin
1325-1375
1325-75; Middle English matris, matrix < Latin mātrix female animal kept for breeding ( Late Latin: register, orig. of such beasts), parent stem (of plants), derivative of māter mother

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/matrix

So I take Planck's meaning as that of all matter originating from consciousness.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

re: "This mind is the matrix of all matter.”

I found it interesting that the word 'matrix', used here by Planck, has the original meanings of 'mater' or 'mother' and 'womb'.

matrix

1. something that constitutes the place or point from which something else originates, takes form, or develops:
The Greco-Roman world was the matrix for Western civilization.

Origin of matrix
Middle English
Latin
1325-1375
1325-75; Middle English matris, matrix < Latin mātrix female animal kept for breeding ( Late Latin: register, orig. of such beasts), parent stem (of plants), derivative of māter mother

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/matrix

So I take Planck's meaning as that of all matter originating from consciousness.

Yes...and the word 'matter' also has the original meaning of 'mater'/'mother'...

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/matter

 

[godnotgod]

Yes...and the word 'matter' also has the original meaning of 'mater'/'mother'...

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/matter

It's a small, cozy non-dual world, heh..heh..

 

[Ben Dhyan]

It's a small, cozy non-dual world, heh..heh..

aummmmmmm

 

[Kemosloby]

I'm not sure if I can post a poll on here but who here believes that the universe originated from nothing? As some of the major scientific theories from the 20th century claimed or was there an originator of some sort? Doesn't have to be God necessarily in your opinion. Who believes the universe has no beginning? I'm just curious as to what you guys believe with regard to this topic and what the basis of your belief would be?

One or the other, or maybe both came out of nothing, or has no beginning. But scriptures say the heavens and earth had a beginning, but God has no beginning. Well I'm glad God cleared that question up for us, and put it in a book.

 

[godnotgod]

aummmmmmm

You were saying something awhile back about extracting energy from the zpe field, or some such notion. Nassim Harrmein seems to be talking about that in this video, I think:

 

[`mud]

hey Kem,
see the waves.......see the particles.......see the dissapearance........
see the re-appearance........see the light........see it gone........
see the direction.......see the distance ?
see the source ?
You don't ?
~
No source.....but effects on everything !
It seems to be 'God' doesn't it ?
~
How many heavens out there,
how many nirvanas,
In what direction is 'God' ?
In what direction is 'Brahma' ?
~
'mud

 

[james bond]

That's a tricky question! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consciousness#Animal_consciousness

It is a good question. Animals have instincts, but do they have consciousness? I would think they do. Notice anything in this gif?

 

[godnotgod]

Animals have instincts, but do they have consciousness?

Instinct is a kind of knowing; instinctual knowing is consciousness. How can it be any other way?

 

[Ben Dhyan]

You were saying something awhile back about extracting energy from the zpe field, or some such notion. Nassim Harrmein seems to be talking about that in this video, I think:

I have mentioned extracting energy from the zpe field here before in two contexts, one is through the Casimir Effect (which Nassim mentions), and the other is through electromagnetic induction and frequency conversion of the em zpe waves...but this latter is still only theoretical though a patent exists.. What is new in the very interesting talk by Nassim Harrmein is the Finnish experiment whereby gravitational impulses have been transmitted over a kilometer at a speed of 65 C.....a space craft propulsion system based on this sort of thrust would make the 'breakfast on Earth, lunch on Alpha Centuri, and dinner back on Earth' scenario a reality. I attach another approach to FTL space travel using the zpe to manipulate gravity...