A Universe from Nothing?

[George-ananda]

It is a good question. Animals have instincts, but do they have consciousness? I would think they do. Notice anything in this gif?

The dog seemed to intuit that something huge and noisy was coming up. Kind of like animals escaping and hiding before earthquakes/tsunamis. One might postulate that humans have less of such a sense because we rely on thinking and not intuition. I even heard how like Native Americans and Australian Aborigines had more of these traits when they had to survive in nature. Cats are known to hide before vet appointments. Just ask my old neighbor; it was uncanny.

 

[james bond]

The dog seemed to intuit that something huge and noisy was coming up. Kind of like animals escaping and hiding before earthquakes/tsunamis. One might postulate that humans have less of such a sense because we rely on thinking and not intuition. I even heard how like Native Americans and Australian Aborigines had more of these traits when they had to survive in nature. Cats are known to hide before vet appointments. Just ask my old neighbor; it was uncanny.

You got it. I didn't think our fellow intuition guide would get it. It seems that animals have some sort of "intuition" which would imply they possess consciousness. However, more experiments would be needed to confirm as critics think it has to do with something physical such as preliminary vibrations that they can feel instead of something to do with consciousness.

 

[godnotgod]

You got it. I didn't think our fellow intuition guide would get it. It seems that animals have some sort of "intuition" which would imply they possess consciousness. However, more experiments would be needed to confirm as critics think it has to do with something physical such as preliminary vibrations that they can feel instead of something to do with consciousness.

I already knew that animals sense events before they occur, but did not address that part of the post, instead addressing only the part about animals possessing consciousness.

Feeling vibrations and responding to them is done via consciousness. Consciousness is how they 'know'.

 

[George-ananda]

You got it. I didn't think our fellow intuition guide would get it. It seems that animals have some sort of "intuition" which would imply they possess consciousness. However, more experiments would be needed to confirm as critics think it has to do with something physical such as preliminary vibrations that they can feel instead of something to do with consciousness.

I think it is vibrations but vibrations outside of our normal 3D physical world. If they were vibrations of the physical sort then our greatest scientific inventors would be able to invent something that would be better than a squirrel at predicting earthquakes.

I've not clear on why the consciousness of animals is in question. In my understanding anything capable of subjective experiencing should be considered to possess some kind of consciousness.

 

[james bond]

I think it is vibrations but vibrations outside of our normal 3D physical world. If they were vibrations of the physical sort then our greatest scientific inventors would be able to invent something that would be better than a squirrel at predicting earthquakes.

I've not clear on why the consciousness of animals is in question. In my understanding anything capable of subjective experiencing should be considered to possess some kind of consciousness.

Where do you get it is caused by vibrations?

The greatest invention is our human body and mind which came from God. The same with animals. No question, they are amazing. We are still far from being able to have technology to pick up earthquakes and other upcoming disasters. It would be too costly to shut down everyday life because of a prediction.

Maybe the following will give you some ideas.

https://www.quora.com/Why-havent-we-devised-an-instrument-to-predict-earthquakes

As for dogs, I'll take that dog. Maybe another dog won't react. We don't know why some animals seem to have a sense for detecting seismic activity, rising water or other catastrophic events. That said, there are plenty of animals who didn't escape lava flows. rising water or earthquakes.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

I think it is vibrations but vibrations outside of our normal 3D physical world. If they were vibrations of the physical sort then our greatest scientific inventors would be able to invent something that would be better than a squirrel at predicting earthquakes.

I've not clear on why the consciousness of animals is in question. In my understanding anything capable of subjective experiencing should be considered to possess some kind of consciousness.

That us why meditation is efficacious in developing the intuitive faculty....a continuous thinking mind is unaware of input at a more subtle level of mind... But when the mind is relatively still and free from thought...a whole new domain of mind is accessed that is non-verbal....and non-local.. Though it may take a lot of meditative practice over a long period to develop the faculty to realize it...

 

[ArtieE]

Most of it, yes, but you made a blanket statement that 'atoms are standing waves'. Is that what you want to say?

Sorry haven't had time to be on forums lately but I found two sites that better explain what I mean.
https://actu.epfl.ch/news/the-first-ever-photograph-of-light-as-both-a-parti/
https://quantumwavetheory.wordpress.com/

 

[godnotgod]

.... when the mind is relatively still and free from thought...a whole new domain of mind is accessed that is non-verbal....and non-local..

The master and his student had sat in silent meditation sessions for years. One day, the student wondered if his master could read his thoughts, and as he looked up into his master's face, his master looked back and winked.

Zen source

 

[godnotgod]

The master and his student had sat in silent meditation sessions for years. One day, the student wondered if his master could read his thoughts, and as he looked up into his master's face, his master looked back and winked.

Zen source

You might appreciate this one as well, a furtherance of the famous koan: "Does a dog have Buddha-nature?"

Student: "Does an oak tree have Buddha-nature?"
Master: "It has."
Student: "Then when will it become a Buddha?"
Master: "When the sky falls to the earth."
Student: "When will the sky fall to the earth?"
Master: "When the oak tree becomes a Buddha."

http://www.beliefnet.com/faiths/2000/07/does-a-dog-have-buddha-nature.aspx#fyS7uIjv7CHMW4Q4.99

 

[`mud]

Simple thought creeps in:
"There's a little 'Buddha' in everything"
~
'mud

 

[godnotgod]

Simple thought creeps in:
"There's a little 'Buddha' in everything"
~
'mud

Tathagata-garbha: hidden, potential Buddha-nature : not yet manifest, but hidden, concealed in sentient beings like an "embryo", "germ", "seed", to be set in motion by means of right practice, moving from potential to actual Buddhahood - the soteriological sense of the dynamics towards Buddhahood..

"Now the Blessed One makes mention of the Tathâgata-garbha in the sûtras, and verily it is described by you as by nature bright and pure, as primarily unspotted, endowed with the thirty-two marks of excellence, hidden in the body of every being like a gem of great value, which is enwrapped in a dirty garment, enveloped in the garment of the Skandhas, Dhâtus and Âyatanas, and soiled with the dirt of greed, anger, folly, and false imagination, while it is described by the Blessed One to be eternal, permanent, auspicious, and unchangeable." -Lankâvatâra Sûtra, chapter 2, XXVIII.77-78.

http://www.sofiatopia.org/bodhi/buddha_nature.htm

This is why the lotus growing out of the mud is a Buddhist symbol.

"No mud, no lotus"
Nhat Hanh

 

[gnostic]

Simple thought creeps in:
"There's a little 'Buddha' in everything"
~
'mud

I think they are called "gremlins", mud.

 

[godnotgod]

All you do is post fake Buddha quotes and present a twisted new-age parody of authentic teachings, along with your pseudo-science.

YOU HAVEN'T YET PROVIDED YOUR PROOF THAT I CLAIMED ENLIGHTENMENT. COUGH IT UP. WHERE'S YOUR EVIDENCE THAT YOUR CLAIM IS TRUE? OR ARE YOU JUST LYING AND MAKING THINGS UP AGAIN?

 

[godnotgod]

LOL The brain creates a sense of self and an "I". It was just the logical evolutionary next step as brains got more and more sophisticated.

A higher level of sophistication does not logically lead to self-awareness. If that is the case, exactly at which point does this occur?

That a simple blade of grass, without a neural system, can manufacture its own food is very sophisticated, but no evolved brain is involved, let alone a sense of self or 'I'.

Maybe self-awareness leads to a more sophisticated brain.

 

[`mud]

The nervous system and control facilities of the Sunflower,
have a similar nervous system as slugs, but not quite as able !
Ahhhhhhhh.....those damn roots !
~
'mud

 

[godnotgod]

The nervous system and control facilities of the Sunflower,
have a similar nervous system as slugs, but not quite as able !
Ahhhhhhhh.....those damn roots !
~
'mud

Are you sure it's a real 'nervous system', or something else?

Still, a sunflower can photosynthesize nutrients, while we (and slugs) cannot.

 

[`mud]

What turns to the night,
what seeks the east,
what follows the Sun,
all the way to the west,
what receptor does that ?
~
What 'brain' does this ?
~
nuffstuff
'mud

 

[godnotgod]

What turns to the night,
what seeks the east,
what follows the Sun,
all the way to the west,
what receptor does that ?
~
What 'brain' does this ?
~
nuffstuff
'mud

Plant Tropic Responses
"Tropisms are directional movement responses that occur in response to a directional stimulus. Plants are not able to relocated if they happen to start growing where conditions are suboptimal. However, plants can alter their growth so they can grow into more favorable conditions, To do so requires the ability to detect where the conditions are better and then alter their growth so they can "move" in the appropriate direction. One of the most commonly observed tropic responses in plants is phototropism, in which plant stems grow towards light. As anyone who has grown plants near a window knows, the plants tend to lean towards the window where the light is usually stronger than inside the room. Another commonly observed tropic responses is gravitropism, [geotropism] where a plant will grow so that it stays oriented relative to the source of gravity (the earth). Thus, if a plant is knocked down the shoot will grow faster on the lower side until the shoot is more-or-less standing up again."

http://plantsinmotion.bio.indiana.edu/plantmotion/movements/tropism/tropisms.html

These tropic responses are controlled via hormones called gibberellins:

• During phototropism and gravitropism, the plant hormone auxin controls cell elongation.

• The plant hormone cytokinin promotes cell division, controling many developmental processes in plants.

• Gibberellins control many aspects of plant physiology including shoot elongation, seed germination, fruit and flower maturation, seed dormancy, gender expression, seedless fruit development, and the delay of senescence in leaves and fruit.

Source: Boundless. “Auxins, Cytokinins, and Gibberellins.” Boundless Biology. Boundless, 26 May. 2016. Retrieved 12 Nov. 2016 from https://www.boundless.com/biology/t...auxins-cytokinins-and-gibberellins-704-11929/

 

[`mud]

Not too poetic is it ?
My was much better.
~
Somehow.....I still question about the daisies turning back to the East over night !
~
Do they possess cognition of the revolving,
are they really self aware......nah...,
do they turn over or turn around,
we need some rhymes here,
or a break !
~
'mud

 

[ArtieE]

A higher level of sophistication does not logically lead to self-awareness. If that is the case, exactly at which point does this occur?

At about 18 months plus minus depending on how evolved the brain is.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/great-kids-great-parents/201211/self-awareness
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/when-does-consciousness-arise/