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A Universe from Nothing?

George-ananda

George-ananda

Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
Premium Member
Shad said:
Empty claim. Do you have a comparison to see if animals detect these events faster than the device I linked? I bet you do not thus you are making an assertion, nothing more.
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The evidence for this ability in animals is strong. (how could humans ever test for something they do not know to expect??) Plus tests have shown that cats know to hide before vet appointments, dogs can predict the random arrival of owners at rates that can not be chance. The evidence suggests they have what we would call 'psychic' abilities. Biologist Dr. Rupert Sheldrake is one of the leaders in this field.

I am also well aware of pseudo-skeptics that attack anything that smacks of God, ufos and aliens, the paranormal, psychic abilities, etc.. We each have to look at all the data and argumentation and form our own beliefs.
 
godnotgod

godnotgod

Thou art That
ArtieE said:
Nonsense. Read through your link again. It says:

"Physicists have now confirmed that the apparently substantial stuff is actually no more than fluctuations in the quantum vacuum."

Real! "fluctuations in the quantum vacuum". Not imaginary or non-existent or illusory fluctuations. Real ones.
https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn16095-its-confirmed-matter-is-merely-vacuum-fluctuations/
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Ya, but not real mass!: VIRTUAL mass!

The key words being 'no more than'....

The end of the link states that all reality is then 'virtual reality'.
 
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A

ArtieE

Well-Known Member
godnotgod

godnotgod

Thou art That
ArtieE said:
Go to https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn16095-its-confirmed-matter-is-merely-vacuum-fluctuations/
Where does it say "virtual mass"?
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Last sentence:

"So if the LHC confirms that the Higgs exists, it will mean all reality is virtual."

So? If "all reality" is "virtual reality" does that mean that reality isn't real? Are you trying to say that "all reality" isn't real? Isn't that a contradiction in terms?
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No.

It means that what we perceive to be reality, is only acting as if it is reality, just as what only seems to be reality in a dream, is only a dream. The difference between dream reality and awakened reality is that what we perceive as 'materiality' does not vanish upon awakening to the next higher level of consciousness, as it does when awakening from a dream.

True Reality is that state of conscious awareness that sees that this world we only perceive as materially 'real' is an illusion. This state of consciousness is called 'Awakening', and is beyond that which we only think of as the awakened state, ie; 'perceptual reality'.
 
A

ArtieE

Well-Known Member
godnotgod said:
Last sentence:

"So if the LHC confirms that the Higgs exists, it will mean all reality is virtual."
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I don't see the expression "virtual mass" in there.
It means that what we perceive to be reality, is only acting as if it is reality,
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OK, so these "fluctuations in the quantum vacuum" aren't real they only seem to be real and are only acting as if they are real?
 
godnotgod

godnotgod

Thou art That
ArtieE said:
I don't see the expression "virtual mass" in there.OK, so these "fluctuations in the quantum vacuum" aren't real they only seem to be real and are only acting as if they are real?
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The 'mass' of the atom that they create is not real. IOW, this 'material' world is not material, but virtual in nature.

"all reality is virtual" = 'virtual reality'

The fluctuations themselves come from The Unified Field, which is Pure Abstract Intelligence.

The true identity of the character on stage is the actor behind the mask. The actor has become the character, but when the drama ends, the actor is the only reality left.
 
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gnostic

gnostic

The Lost One
ArtieE said:
But godnotgod, my laptop isn't an illusion. It's made up of atoms. Why would knowing what atoms are made up of make the laptop an illusion?
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godnotgod said:
You 'know' your laptop via perceptual reality, ie; via touch and sight, and not via what it ultimately is.
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You can go blind, one day, and your computer will still be a "laptop".

What it's "ultimately is", is nothing more than your attempts at BS sophistry.
 
godnotgod

godnotgod

Thou art That
gnostic said:
You can go blind, one day, and your computer will still be a "laptop".
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The only way you can know that it is a laptop is via perception, or extensions of perception.

What it's "ultimately is", is nothing more than your attempts at BS sophistry.
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Before the material in the laptop became material, that is fundamental, or ultimate, reality, and not what you call 'laptop', which is perceptual reality.

We now know, via Quantum Physics, that all of the mass of all of the atoms that make up 'laptop' is virtual mass. IOW, it does not even exist as material reality. It exists only as 'superposition of possibility', as all 'material' reality does, at least according to Quantum Physics.

You, like Artie, are confusing form with things.

Listen here a bit so you can understand:

 
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godnotgod

godnotgod

Thou art That
ArtieE said:
Our brain produces the sense of "I" when it has evolved and gotten complex enough to do so.
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Computers are very complex and evolved, but nowhere do we see a consciously self-aware computer with a self-created notion of itself called 'I'. Computers ultimately rely on conscious humans for their programming, just as humans rely on consciousness for theirs.

So you still have not been able to tell us exactly where and how this brain produces the sense of 'I'. Just saying it is not explanation enough. You are talking about a Quantum leap here, at least in terms of the materialist view. I really think materialism has reached a dead end via its own machinations.
 
godnotgod

godnotgod

Thou art That
Thief said:
still doing the denial routine....yes 'you' are...
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Who is it that denies or affirms? After umpteen zillion pages, you continue to put yourself in checkmate, dearie. The ego does not want to die, but die it must, if you are to escape the eternal grave you are so horrified of.
 
Thief

Thief

Rogue Theologian
godnotgod said:
Who is it that denies or affirms? After umpteen zillion pages, you continue to put yourself in checkmate, dearie. The ego does not want to die, but die it must, if you are to escape the eternal grave you are so horrified of.
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'I' will stand before God and heaven......hoping to be affirmed

when 'you' do so .....'your' desire will come true
 
Rick O'Shez

Rick O'Shez

Irishman bouncing off walls
ArtieE said:
If these "fluctuations in the quantum vacuum" are real obviously what they create is also real?
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If you drop a brick on your foot it is going to hurt, that is is our "reality". I wish people would stop preaching pseudo-science and muddling it up with new-age "spirituality", it is all BS.
 
godnotgod

godnotgod

Thou art That
Rick O'Shez said:
If you drop a brick on your foot it is going to hurt, that is is our "reality".
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That is your reality on your level of conscious awareness, which is PERCEPTUAL reality, but it is not the FUNDAMENTAL reality upon which perceptual reality is based.

If you experience thirst and hunger within a dream, it is real on that level of reality. But upon awakening, it is realized that your dream thirst and dream hunger were only aspects of a dream.

In our ordinary conditioned view of reality (ie; perceptual reality), we think things have inherent self-nature; that a rock has a 'rock nature', etc. But the awakened mind sees clearly that all phenomena are empty of any such inherent self-nature; that emptiness is the fundamental, or ultimate reality we call Sunyata.

'form is emptiness;
emptiness is form'

IOW, emptiness is the true, or fundamental nature of Reality.
 
YmirGF

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
Rick O'Shez said:
If you drop a brick on your foot it is going to hurt, that is is our "reality". I wish people would stop preaching pseudo-science and muddling it up with new-age "spirituality", it is all BS.
Click to expand...
To be fair, we shouldn't expect a lot in the emptiness doctrine being constantly bleated about here. It's not like there is much to it. :D
I wonder when he is going to pick up his Nobel Prize for Physics given that he has ascertained the missing links in the Unified Field Theory.
 
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