A Universe from Nothing?

[ArtieE]

DUH! Mute the volume while watching the video and there is no sound

DUH! Of course if I mute the volume there'll be no pressure waves and no sound from the laptop loudspeakers.

Just seeing the pressure waves in the air is not the sound of two hands clapping.

Never said it was. You are seeing THE SOUND of two hands clapping.

Now where is the idiocy?

I'm afraid it's still on your side.

The sound of one hand clapping is a famous Zen koan. When you hear this sound, you will realize your own enlightenment.

http://deoxy.org/koan/21

Don't these Zen people even understand that there's no such thing as one hand clapping? Clapping per definition requires two hands! One hand can't clap!

 

[godnotgod]

Sound is vibration.Recognized as sound! Sound is sound whether it's recognized as sound or not. As we just saw above sound is vibration.

You are taking things out of context and then driving square pegs into round holes.

The complete Scientific American mags statement is as follows:

"Sound is vibration, transmitted to our senses through the mechanism of the ear, and recognized as sound only at our nerve centers. The falling of the tree or any other disturbance will produce vibration of the air. If there be no ears to hear, there will be no sound."

 

[godnotgod]

Don't these Zen people even understand that there's no such thing as one hand clapping? Clapping per definition requires two hands! One hand can't clap!

That's the point!

 

[godnotgod]

Never said it was.

Yes, you did, here:

"What you see in the video is the actual SOUND!"

Then you went on to say:

You are seeing THE SOUND of two hands clapping.I

We don't SEE sound; we HEAR sound.

 

[ArtieE]

You are taking things out of context and then driving square pegs into round holes.

The complete Scientific American mags statement is as follows:

"Sound is vibration, transmitted to our senses through the mechanism of the ear, and recognized as sound only at our nerve centers. The falling of the tree or any other disturbance will produce vibration of the air. If there be no ears to hear, there will be no sound."

You do realize that "Sound is vibration" and those vibrations would still be there even if there were no ears there right? And that those vibrations are still there even if they aren't recognized as sounds? The last sentence contradicts the previous ones.

 

[ArtieE]

That's the point!

What's the point?

 

[ArtieE]

We don't SEE sound; we HEAR sound.

Have you already forgotten that the name of the video I linked to is "What does sound look like?" and that it shows what sound looks like?

 

[ArtieE]

People who are asleep and dreaming, while thinking themselves awake, think that their conditioned minds represent reality, and run around trying to talk their 'sense' into others.

That's what you are doing and aren't you supposed to be awake?

 

[godnotgod]

DUH! Of course if I mute the volume there'll be no pressure waves and no sound from the laptop loudspeakers.

You said: "What you see in the video is the actual SOUND!"

Then I said that if you mute the volume, there is no sound, proving that what you SEE in the video is not the actual sound, as you claimed.

 

[godnotgod]

What's the point?

The point is that the koan points to a deeper understanding of reality. You must learn to look beyond mere phenomena and perception.

 

[godnotgod]

Have you already forgotten that the name of the video I linked to is "What does sound look like?" and that it shows what sound looks like?

What you see is not sound; it is the footprint of pressure waves. Sound can only be heard. That is why it is called 'sound'. We hear the sound of two hands clapping; we don't see the sound.

 

[godnotgod]

You do realize that "Sound is vibration" and those vibrations would still be there even if there were no ears there right? And that those vibrations are still there even if they aren't recognized as sounds? The last sentence contradicts the previous ones.

No, there is no contradiction. Any contradiction is in your head. You're still out of context. Sound is vibration as decoded by ears and brain. Or is Scientific American wrong on this?

 

[godnotgod]

That's what you are doing and aren't you supposed to be awake?

All I am saying is that most of the people in the world think themselves to be awake, when they are living in a dream-world from which a higher awakening is possible, an awakening which shows that this so called 'material reality' is an illusion, and that Reason, Logic, and Analysis fail at some point. Kant told us that Reason has ineluctable limits, and we are now experiencing these limits in science.

 

[ArtieE]

Sound Transmission to the Brain
With the initiation of the nerve impulses, another change in medium occurs: from fluid to neural. Nerve impulses are relayed through the VIII C.N., through various nuclei along the auditory pathway to areas to the brain. It is the brain that interprets the neural impulses and creates a thought, picture, or other recognized symbol.

LOL It says the SOUND is transmitted to the brain. There's nothing in your red sentence that says the brain creates the SOUND.

 

[ArtieE]

No, there is no contradiction. Any contradiction is in your head. You're still out of context. Sound is vibration as decoded by ears and brain. Or is Scientific American wrong on this?

I'm afraid so. The last sentence contradicts the previous ones.

 

[ArtieE]

You said: "What you see in the video is the actual SOUND!"

Then I said that if you mute the volume, there is no sound, proving that what you SEE in the video is not the actual sound, as you claimed.

You are now so confused that I give up. And I must also retire for today.

 

[godnotgod]

LOL It says the SOUND is transmitted to the brain. There's nothing in your red sentence that says the brain creates the SOUND.

Did you notice the word 'interprets'? Waves cannot be heard as sound as such; they must be translated into recognizable sound. That is what the ear and brain do together. We recognize the sound from previous experiences, as the brain stores them for comparison to sounds we hear in the future. New sounds may sound like something already stored.

 

[godnotgod]

I'm afraid so. The last sentence contradicts the previous ones.

Then I suggest you get in contact with Scientific American, and set them straight. When you have a correction in writing from them, post it here so we can all see how right you are....or how deluded you are. But we already knew that, didn't we?

 

[godnotgod]

You are now so confused that I give up. And I must also retire for today.

Yes, a nice long rest and a hot cup of strong tea should make you come around.

 

[godnotgod]

LOL It says the SOUND is transmitted to the brain. There's nothing in your red sentence that says the brain creates the SOUND.

So what the #&^$@ do you suppose the brain is included in the chain of events for, if not to elicit the final product? Window dressing?