A Universe from Nothing?

[YmirGF]

Ok then, you claim I myself describe absolute reality, while at the same time tell others that reality can't be described. So now please quote my exact words where I describe reality?

You are not that interesting. You've just accused @gnostic for not "getting" what you are saying and now you want to play footsie with me? Seriously?


For starters, you use the incredibly banal term "absolute reality" as if mere mortals would be capable of discerning such a thing. You have only your flawed perception to go by, so how is your distortion of reality more accurate than any other? How does one comprehend that something is absolute? Have you done comparative studies?

 

[Ben Dhyan]

You are not that interesting. You've just accused @gnostic for not "getting" what you are saying and now you want to play footsie with me? Seriously?


For starters, you use the incredibly banal term "absolute reality" as if mere mortals would be capable of discerning such a thing. You have only your flawed perception to go by, so how is your distortion of reality more accurate than any other? How does one comprehend that something is absolute? Have you done comparative studies?

You did not quote my words that you say explains reality as I requested so I know what you are referring to, but instead obfuscate by saying I am not that interesting.

Now you talk about how my "distortion of reality" is more accurate than any other, so once again I ask for the quote my exact words you refer to? No further obfuscation please?

 

[Ben Dhyan]

I assume nothing

You said "I am quite happy with any and all the theories of how the universe was created because, no one knows the answer..." Now since the vacuum energy exists, it was either always there or it was created. So which is it, is it eternal or was it created?

 

[Guy Threepwood]

I like to believe that the singularity is the only entity voiding the thinking of any and all `voids`.
There is no `nothingness` !

I agree, I think, I'm never quite sure with you- but good to hear from you anyway!

 

[godnotgod]

I like to believe that the singularity is the only entity voiding the thinking of any and all `voids`.
There is no `nothingness` !

But mud: the moment you envision a 'something', such as 'the singularity'', it cannot be seen or understood except against the background of no-thing-ness. That background is none other than Pure Abstract Intelligence, or The Unified Field, or The Ground of All Being, or Brahman, or The Void, or Sunyata, or God, or The Infinite, or That, or Tao, It cannot be 'something', because anything that is 'something' is necessarily finite, and then there is a problem, as I am sure you can see. The Singularity must be understood against the background out of which it emerged. That background does not come and go; is Unborn, Unconditioned; Uncreated. Only IT is real. But you still need to cling to something, like the Mexican who bites the coin to make sure it is real gold. Let it ALL go, mud. Then you have nothing to figure out, or worry about. Then you will be free.

 

[godnotgod]

Yes gng, but they will not understand as they are still prisoners in the cave, and will take umbrage at it being pointed out. The glare of the 'light' creating the shadows is just too much..

And so they go on and on and on ad nauseum, attacking the pointing finger rather than taking a look at the moon, while clinging to their old materialist authoritarian (but crumbling) paradigm. The Cave offers security and safety, or so they think.

 

[gnostic]

But mud: the moment you envision a 'something', such as 'the singularity'', it cannot be seen or understood except against the background of no-thing-ness. That background is none other than Pure Abstract Intelligence, or The Unified Field, or The Ground of All Being, or Brahman, or The Void, or Sunyata, or God, or The Infinite, or That, or Tao, It cannot be 'something', because anything that is 'something' is necessarily finite, and then there is a problem, as I am sure you can see. The Singularity must be understood against the background out of which it emerged. That background does not come and go; is Unborn, Unconditioned; Uncreated. Only IT is real.

Which is a whole lot of capitalised words for meaningless craps...and more craps.

And here I thought Young Earth Creationism was really, really bad.

But here you are trying to mix and mash Zen, Hinduism, Taoism, and possibly a whole more of other thingies, together. And of course, you have to include physical cosmology too.

It's no wonder that no one can grasp your mish-mash concept.

 

[godnotgod]

I have never used a saucer for myself, so bad analogy.

Ah, your response is a perfect example of how you misunderstand!

 

[godnotgod]

Which is a whole lot of capitalised words for meaningless craps...and more craps.

And here I thought Young Earth Creationism was really, really bad.

But here you are trying to mix and mash Zen, Hinduism, Taoism, and possibly a whole more of other thingies, together. And of course, you have to include physical cosmology too.

It's no wonder that no one can grasp your mish-mash concept.

gnostic, use your head, OK?
These are all just various names for the One Reality.
Try looking past the pointing fingers to see the one reality they actually point to. Try...

The words are capitalized to indicate that they are about something absolute.

 

[godnotgod]

How evolution sets us up NOT to see things as they actually are:

 

[Ben Dhyan]

And so they go on and on and on ad nauseum, attacking the pointing finger rather than taking a look at the moon, while clinging to their old materialist authoritarian (but crumbling) paradigm. The Cave offers security and safety, or so they think.

I understand the expression is....ignorance is bliss!

 

[evilsorcerer1]

The universe had to be created from nothing because only god is spirit, all his creation is physical matter and can only be physical matter. Existence of angels and demons is a fallacy. I imagine the creation of the universe was a very complicated process which required fire and wind. Maybe for some specific reason when the universe was created a solar system or planet was was also created for every person that would ever exist and the whole thing was created at once. But since we are only physical matter when our body dies we are actually dying and no one can be resurrected until everyone has been born. And if we are only physical matter then it's likely the people God loves can't even get our molecules on them because it's a requirement that everyone that has blasphemed God (every part of us and everything we've touched) has to burn. That's why I'm almost sure the 1000 year reign of Christ started at creation and ended 1000 years later. Because it meant the time in which he god's elect would exist. Because Jesus never existed he symbolized the last generation of the chosen. Now if they're gone no others can even be born. I also believe the world will end at 10,000 years old (not the creation of the universe but since the birth of mankind). I also think that Sodom never happened but was a symbol of the end of the world. And in the end the 1/3 of the earth being destroyed may be from lightning chopping chunks away so the chosen can be separated, broken down and remade much much better, probably with the leftover minerals and material in outer space which won't be used to make us living creatures (who also will probably have to be made of the same material as before since we're unique). But we will be made to somehow exist in molten lava.

 

[`mud]

Hey GNG.....a lot of adjectives and some caps also describing nothingness !
How does one point to the `background`, without being the `singularity` itself !

 

[godnotgod]

Hey GNG.....a lot of adjectives and some caps also describing nothingness !
How does one point to the `background`, without being the `singularity` itself !

Hey! Now you're on to something.....er...Nothing. As the Hindus have said for over 4000 years:

"Tat tvam asi"

("Thou art That")

"That" can never be an object in a subject/object split.

 

[godnotgod]

I understand the expression is....ignorance is bliss!

The blind man, grabbing hold of the elephant's tail, exclaims: 'This is the elephant!"

 

[`mud]

Ahhhhh....the difference seen that Atman is identical with Brahman.
I am what I could be, if I were in Nirvana,
in the attainment of enlightenment.
Nahhhh......I'm happy right here, and comes finality.

 

[godnotgod]

Ahhhhh....the difference seen that Atman is identical with Brahman.
I am what I could be, if I were in Nirvana,
in the attainment of enlightenment.
Nahhhh......I'm happy right here, and comes finality.

There is nothing to attain;
nor any 'I' who attains it.
'You' are already enlightened,
but maybe you just haven't realized it as yet.
The illusion is that there is something called 'Enlightenment' that must be attained,
just as the believer thinks he MUST attain Salvation.
Where you are, 'right here',
is exactly the right place.
There is nowhere to go,
and nothing to 'get'.

As Santana sings:

"Open your eyes,
let it begin"

 

[godnotgod]

The universe had to be created from nothing because only god is spirit, all his creation is physical matter and can only be physical matter. Existence of angels and demons is a fallacy. I imagine the creation of the universe was a very complicated process which required fire and wind. Maybe for some specific reason when the universe was created a solar system or planet was was also created for every person that would ever exist and the whole thing was created at once. But since we are only physical matter when our body dies we are actually dying and no one can be resurrected until everyone has been born. And if we are only physical matter then it's likely the people God loves can't even get our molecules on them because it's a requirement that everyone that has blasphemed God (every part of us and everything we've touched) has to burn. That's why I'm almost sure the 1000 year reign of Christ started at creation and ended 1000 years later. Because it meant the time in which he god's elect would exist. Because Jesus never existed he symbolized the last generation of the chosen. Now if they're gone no others can even be born. I also believe the world will end at 10,000 years old (not the creation of the universe but since the birth of mankind). I also think that Sodom never happened but was a symbol of the end of the world. And in the end the 1/3 of the earth being destroyed may be from lightning chopping chunks away so the chosen can be separated, broken down and remade much much better, probably with the leftover minerals and material in outer space which won't be used to make us living creatures (who also will probably have to be made of the same material as before since we're unique). But we will be made to somehow exist in molten lava.

The Chosen and The Not-Chosen; the spirit and the physical; both are dualities that in reality, are only illusions, but make for good drama, whether earthly or celestial (oooops! there goes duality again!)

Alan Watts writes that 'The Chosen' will sit in their celestial rockers at the edge of Heaven, nose up, sipping their heavenly cappucinos, staring down into the pit of hell at the Unchosen writhing in agony, and exclaiming: "Good! They're getting exactly what they deserve!"

It's just another form of egoic one-upmanship playing itself out in an imaginary hereafter.
You get yet another Gold Star and 13 'Atta-Boys', LOL, while The Unchosen get kicked to the gutter. "Good! Serves them right!"

...and the Muslims get their 17 Virgins, of course.

 

[evilsorcerer1]

Here's a question I really need answered: If god is a spirit and only a spirit and his creation is physical matter and can only be that (which I can almost prove) how does he create something from nothing. Now I know God can't be all physical matter if he's perfect because then the part of him that is defiled (us) would make him imperfect.

 

[ChristineM]

There you have it folks......I have not seen you answer it, a simple yes or no is all required, To refuse to do so is consistent with your never ending obfuscation to avoid being revealed as being wrong..

Not my problem if you have not seen or recognised the answer, that is more a problem with your comprehension.