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A Universe from Nothing?

Ben Dhyan

Ben Dhyan

Veteran Member
Rick O'Shez said:
You clearly don't understand the science and/or haven't closely observed the world around you. Entropy IS reality.
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You have not addressed my post...I have said nothing about entropy....I am asking you by what mechanism is time causing reality to continue to exist?
 
Ben Dhyan

Ben Dhyan

Veteran Member
idav said:
I'm not misunderstanding, your describing my objection well. Even if the second part could be accomplished, whatever integrating the mind with reality itself is supposed to mean, you still will argue the first problem of having to use words and concepts when conveying to others. So your basic argument is equivalent to "your wrong cause your using words and stuff".
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No it is not wrong to be in the duality mode of mind in the context of our survival and well being as incarnated mortals....but it is wrong to imagine that the conceptualization and interpretation of reality is equal to that reality. In the non-dual state of mind though, the apparent duality is transcended and the error corrected to reveal the underlying unity of all that is....no time...no distance..no dimensions...just reality itself..
 
Rick O'Shez

Rick O'Shez

Irishman bouncing off walls
ben d said:
Change is not time....time is a conceptual measurement... So how do you think entropy makes reality continue to exist?
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Read and study about atomic clocks, the arrow of time and entropy. Then do some close observation of the world around you, the answer is literally staring you in the face.
 
YmirGF

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
ben d said:
Maths comes from the human mind....it also has no reality outside the human mind... Maths is meant to represent reality....but it is not that reality...just like words are meant to represent reality but are not that reality they stand for.. When people mistake the conceptual representation of reality for reality...their mind is stuck in duality mode and can not see the unity... You are talking about conceptual reality...a proxy that stands for reality...I am talking about reality itself...which has no dimensions as it is a unity...
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Obviously this conversation is going nowhere....
 
idav

idav

Being
Premium Member
ben d said:
No it is not wrong to be in the duality mode of mind in the context of our survival and well being as incarnated mortals....but it is wrong to imagine that the conceptualization and interpretation of reality is equal to that reality. In the non-dual state of mind though, the apparent duality is transcended and the error corrected to reveal the underlying unity of all that is....no time...no distance..no dimensions...just reality itself..
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I'm pretty sure people are aware of the limitations of perception. Nobody would argue that. To bring it up to counter points really assumes ignorance of things I am sure people are already well aware of. I'm not someone you need to preach unity and oneness to, I already think that way.
 
YmirGF

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
ben d said:
Whatever.... :)
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What slightly annoys me, Ben, is that you pretend that the people you are talking to do not have their own considerable experience of inner reality. It seems to disturb you and gNg that others see things differently than you do and that we don't buy into your somewhat limited all or nothing approach. Reality isn't neat and tidy.
 
YmirGF

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
idav said:
I'm pretty sure people are aware of the limitations of perception. Nobody would argue that. To bring it up to counter points really assumes ignorance of things I am sure people are already well aware of. I'm not someone you need to preach unity and oneness to, I already think that way.
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Interesting that we would hit on similar sentiments simultaneously.... Jus' sayin.... Synchronicity at work... or play... as you prefer. :D
 
Ben Dhyan

Ben Dhyan

Veteran Member
idav said:
I'm pretty sure people are aware of the limitations of perception. Nobody would argue that. To bring it up to counter points really assumes ignorance of things I am sure people are already well aware of. I'm not someone you need to preach unity and oneness to, I already think that way.
Click to expand...
There is no other way to see the limitations of conceptual thought processes....time and the three dimensions of space are tremendously important concepts...but at the end of the day they are abstractions from underlying reality...time is an abstraction from the persistence of existence...and the dimensions of space are an abstraction from omnipresence...both imply finiteness whereas the source of the abstractions are not...
 
YmirGF

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
ben d said:
There is no other way to see the limitations of conceptual thought processes....time and the three dimensions of space are tremendously important concepts...but at the end of the day they are abstractions from underlying reality...time is an abstraction from the persistence of existence...and the dimensions of space are an abstraction from omnipresence...both imply finiteness whereas the source of the abstractions are not...
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Not so sure, Ben. By all estimates these days, the physical universe appears to be quite limitless and expanding...
 
Rick O'Shez

Rick O'Shez

Irishman bouncing off walls
ben d said:
There is no other way to see the limitations of conceptual thought processes....time and the three dimensions of space are tremendously important concepts...but at the end of the day they are abstractions from underlying reality...time is an abstraction from the persistence of existence...and the dimensions of space are an abstraction from omnipresence...both imply finiteness whereas the source of the abstractions are not...
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Subjective inner experiences are the abstraction. The notion of "underlying reality" here is highly questionable.
 
Ben Dhyan

Ben Dhyan

Veteran Member
YmirGF said:
What slightly annoys me, Ben, is that you pretend that the people you are talking to do not have their own considerable experience of inner reality. It seems to disturb you and gNg that others see things differently than you do and that we don't buy into your somewhat limited all or nothing approach. Reality isn't neat and tidy.
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I'm not selling....it's all a gift.. I'm relieved I only slightly annoyed you YmirG, I really love to see you happy and firendly.... No it doesn't disturb me that others see things differently...but I can't pretend to believe in their view point if I see it as limited... It works both ways....it seems some people are annoyed and disturbed at what I say.....until they get it... :)
 
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