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A Universe from Nothing?

godnotgod

Thou art That
Sorry to hear the standard model and actually being able to observe each component as predicted is unsatisfactory to you. What is nature of reality to you, seems like physics has a pretty good handle on it by explaining how things work at the microscopic level.

A claim that science must be able to observe the immaterial is nonsense. Everything "immaterial" can be tied to an observable or nobody could know it exists and if the immaterial doesn't tie to anything observable then it may as well be nonexistent.

Hmmm?.....did I make such a claim?

As I understand it, even the Higgs Boson, the key element of the Standard Model, is virtual in nature. I don't see the Standard Model to be so fundamental as the Unified Field.

You do realize, don't you, that you only assume the fundamental reality to be material in nature, when the reality is that this notion of materiality is slowly crumbling, especially now with the discovery of QM?

Does the Standard Model tell us what the Universe is?
 
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Thief

Rogue Theologian
The I AM is eternal....so are all the conceptual attributes.....the created and the uncreated...

Mind comes from this sublime and completely unified source above; it is divided only as it enters into the universe of human distinctions. —Menahem Nahum
God did not enter into human conditions

there was no scrip for reference
no quote for Him to use
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
You keep spreading this falsity it doesn't make it true. Might as well say Gravity is just silly maths nothing to worry about if you jump off a cliff. Time is as fundamental as the gravity that bends it.
you might want to research a but more
try wiki

time is a measure .....speed compared to distance
movement is real
distance is real
the measure was invented by Man
 

Ben Dhyan

Veteran Member
God did not enter into human conditions

there was no scrip for reference
no quote for Him to use
I presume you are referring to this...Mind comes from this sublime and completely unified source above; it is divided only as it enters into the universe of human distinctions. —Menahem Nahum

So you say....the soul then has no connection with God....nor has Jesus any connection?
 

Rick O'Shez

Irishman bouncing off walls
Hmmm?.....did I make such a claim?

Frankly it's very difficult to tell what you ARE claiming most of the time. It's like this random emission of ideas from here there and everywhere, an incoherent jargon-infested muddle.
 
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Thief

Rogue Theologian
I see confusion

space, gravity, mass and movement have relations
and they screw with each other

the flexing causes difficulty as we observe

we then fall back on our measuring devices and numbers to ease our troubled minds

and then we think we have a handle on how the universe works

if it's on the chalkboard.....it's fair game for doubt

especially when using a non-entity to support your discussion
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
I presume you are referring to this...Mind comes from this sublime and completely unified source above; it is divided only as it enters into the universe of human distinctions. —Menahem Nahum

So you say....the soul then has no connection with God....nor has Jesus any connection?
Someone had to be First in mind and heart

there was no one there to form the soul of God ......for God
 

idav

Being
Premium Member
I see confusion

space, gravity, mass and movement have relations
and they screw with each other

the flexing causes difficulty as we observe

we then fall back on our measuring devices and numbers to ease our troubled minds

and then we think we have a handle on how the universe works

if it's on the chalkboard.....it's fair game for doubt

especially when using a non-entity to support your discussion
The problem isn't with the maths which you can doubt all you want. The problem is having to adjust clocks and gps in relation to mass or speed variation.

Your head Is older than your feet.
 

idav

Being
Premium Member
You do realize, don't you, that you only assume the fundamental reality to be material in nature, when the reality is that this notion of materiality is slowly crumbling, especially now with the discovery of QM?
No I don't assume anything and not it isn't crumbling. It's cause experiments show the bosons to exist as predicted.

You keep saying reality is virtual in nature. I've shown you that virtual particles doesn't mean what you think it means so it most certainly doesn't mean immaterial or nothingness. Things that can be measured are said to be real, are said to exist. I feel like that's so fundamental I can't understand having to even say it.
 

idav

Being
Premium Member
In case anyone is curious, the article I presented earlier says virtual particles do not pop in and out of existence but rather become different types of particles. Conservation of energy prevents anything from being able to simply pop out if existence.
 

godnotgod

Thou art That
No I don't assume anything and not it isn't crumbling. It's cause experiments show the bosons to exist as predicted.

You keep saying reality is virtual in nature. I've shown you that virtual particles doesn't mean what you think it means so it most certainly doesn't mean immaterial or nothingness. Things that can be measured are said to be real, are said to exist. I feel like that's so fundamental I can't understand having to even say it.

All these particles are points, localized vibrations, in a field. It is the field that is all important. The 'particle' cannot exist without the field. Anyway, I'm going with the following description:

"Physicists now use a class of theories called quantum field theories, or QFTs, which were first postulated in the late 1920s and developed over the following decades. QFTs are intriguing, but they take some getting used to. To start, let’s think only about electrons. Everywhere in the universe there is a field called the electron field. A physical electron isn’t the field, but rather a localized vibration in the field. In fact, every electron in the universe is a similar localized vibration of that single field.

Electrons aren’t the only particles to consist of localized vibrations of a field; all particles do. There is a photon field, an up quark field, a gluon field, a muon field; indeed there is a field for every known particle. And, for all of them, the thing that we visualize as a particle is just a localized vibration of that field. Even the recently discovered Higgs boson is like this. The Higgs field interacts with particles and gives them their mass, but it is hard to observe this field directly. Instead, we supply energy to the field in particle collisions and cause it to vibrate. When we say “we’ve discovered the Higgs boson,” you should think “we’ve caused the Higgs field to vibrate and observed the vibrations.”

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/blogs/physics/2013/08/the-good-vibrations-of-quantum-field-theories/

A rather poor analogy, I am sure, would be the refresh rate of PC monitors, which constantly creates and maintains the image on the screen, making it appear as if it were a single static image.

The assumption that we live in a material world was in place before Quantum Physics found issues with that idea. But the assumption was carried forward and still persists.

The same is true of The Laws, which were inherited from Judeo-Christianity. Science simply dropped the idea of a Law-Maker, and kept the laws. But perhaps these so called 'laws' are more patterns than laws.
 
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YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
In case anyone is curious, the article I presented earlier says virtual particles do not pop in and out of existence but rather become different types of particles. Conservation of energy prevents anything from being able to simply pop out if existence.
Pffffft. Spare us the lying non-enlightened facts that run counter to the ongoing enlightened narrative, infidel, science-fawning lapdog.
Pssst. Facts don't matter here in WahooLand! It's all an illusion.o_O:oops::rolleyes:
 

Ben Dhyan

Veteran Member
In case anyone is curious, the article I presented earlier says virtual particles do not pop in and out of existence but rather become different types of particles. Conservation of energy prevents anything from being able to simply pop out if existence.
Who claimed virtual particles pop into existence from nothing....is there anyone here that believes something can come from nothing?
 

godnotgod

Thou art That
Who claimed virtual particles pop into existence from nothing....is there anyone here that believes something can come from nothing?

(1 raised hand). :D Ya, but where is this 'something' that came from anything? So far, this 'something' isn't much of anything. As it (seems) to turn out, all those 'particles' are not particles at all, but localized vibrations within their respective energy fields. (see my post/reference above). As I understand it, all of these fields taken together comprise The Unified Field, and I go with John Hagelin, who is telling us that this UF is Pure Abstract Intelligence, or, Brahman. This Brahman, or Ground of All Being, is empty of self-nature, in accord with the principle of Sunyata.
 
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