A Universe from Nothing?

[Rick O'Shez]

Whereas existence itself is proof enough there is a God. From the tiniest molecule to the most complex form of life, complete order and balance exist.

Existence is no proof for God whatsoever. And haven't you heard of entropy and chaos theory?

We have no idea how it all began, and "God did it" is just Sunday School stuff.

 

[Valjean]

Of course Faith is rational. When scientists hypothesise and theorise they are having faith in an unknown yet to be proven and that process of having faith that they are on the right track eventually leads them to discoveries which they eventually prove but all along it is an act of faith that they were on the right path.

Hypotheses are provisional. Scientists don't necessarily have faith in them or believe them. Indeed, the process calls for the scientists to attempt to disprove them, then to publish the results and solicit criticism from peers -- hardly comparable to religious faith.
Your mention of "proof" is further evidence that you don't grasp the scientific process. Science never proves anything; it just amasses and tests evidence. Al conclusions are open to criticism and refutation at any time.

Scientists currently have faith that there is other life in the universe so they spend billions on telescopes and robots and spaceships to go and investigate on purely faith. They have no evidence and no proof whatsoever. It is purely faith and belief that make them search,

Poppycock!
Telescopes are not built to discover life on other worlds. They exist for pure exploration and research. No telescope is going to visualize a LGM looking back at us.
Robotic probes may test for signs of life, but that's just part of their survey mission. Scientists don't create probes to demonstrate or seek evidence to demonstrate any preconceived religious dogma.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Existence is no proof for God whatsoever. And haven't you heard of entropy and chaos theory?

We have no idea how it all began, and "God did it" is just Sunday School stuff.

I see proof of God in every atom. But each to his own.

 

[Valjean]

No proof is proof. It's not subjective. If you've discovered some atomic maths proving God please explain it to us.

 

[loverofhumanity]

No proof is proof. It's not subjective. If you've discovered some atomic maths proving God please explain it to us.

We have been given both inner and outer vision. One is to view the outer world and the other we can see godly and spiritual realities.

If we use these inner senses proof of God is not necessary as it is as clear as the sun.

The outer ear is designed to hear sound while the inner ear is designed to hear the voice of its creator.

I don't require proofs as I already know there's a God. That something others have to search for themselves. If they use their inner senses they will discover God too.

 

[VioletVortex]

There is no initial evidence of life on other planets. Yet billions are spent on research in the belief and faith that there is life but it's only an assumption not based on any evidence.

Yes, there is no hard evidence. What drives humanity to explore space is the probability. That's what drives my faith in the spiritual.

 

[loverofhumanity]

SETI isn't based on "pure faith" but on probability, given the vast number of planets out there capable of supporting life.

But how can we talk about a probability for God? And how could we ever test for Gods existence, given that he never shows up?

This is something we already know and that science will confirm sooner or later.

While SETI is based upon probability we are already certain. I'm just speaking factually not trying to boast or anything. There are sacred writings which state there is life on other planets.

So we already know.

 

[Valjean]

We have been given both inner and outer vision. One is to view the outer world and the other we can see godly and spiritual realities.

If we use these inner senses proof of God is not necessary as it is as clear as the sun.

The outer ear is designed to hear sound while the inner ear is designed to hear the voice of its creator.

I don't require proofs as I already know there's a God. That something others have to search for themselves. If they use their inner senses they will discover God too.

If God were clear as the Sun we wouldn't have ten thousand contradictory religions in the world.
I think this 'inner vision" is, in fact, just ingrained conventionalism.
You were raised with this notion, it was instilled before you developed any sort of logical firewall or ability for critical analysis. Had you been raised an atheistic Buddhist or jungle animist your gut would be telling you these views were obviously the correct ones.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Interestingly, made form nothing the earth was formless and void 'toku bohu'
is repeated in Deuteronomy... the dessert is a void wasteland and God made a people from it wandering 40 years after leaving
Egypt
The Spirit hoovered over the waters in creating the forless and void world in Genesis
God as eagle hoovered over a people in the formless and void dessert to make a nation

How did you conclude a ' made form (or from) nothing earth ' ?
Made and Create also have two separate meanings:
As in parents can create (procreate) a child, and the child can be made to do something like be made to sit in a chair.

According to Isaiah 40:26 God used his ' power and strength ' (His dynamic energy) to create (make) the material/physical realm.
- Jeremiah 10:12; Jeremiah 27:5; Jeremiah 32:17; Psalms 104:30

 

[URAVIP2ME]

This is something we already know and that science will confirm sooner or later.
While SETI is based upon probability we are already certain. I'm just speaking factually not trying to boast or anything. There are sacred writings which state there is life on other planets.
So we already know.

To me 'the Bible is a sacred writing' and it does Not state life on other planets.
If there was faithful intelligent life elsewhere then that means a faithful Adam and Eve, so there would be No need to settle the sin issue here on Earth because it would have already been settled elsewhere.

Who knows, but after Jesus' 1,000-year governmental rulership over Earth if fulfilled, then we could see intelligent life elsewhere, but until Universal Sovereignty is setted here on Earth there will be No intelligent physical life elsewhere.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

So where is God in relation to the universe...omnipresent with it...or external to it? And where was G-d before the creation of the entire universe in one small location...what space did G-d occupy?

No, Not omnipresent according to the Bible.
God has a specific home location - 1 Kings 8:30; 1 Kings 8:39; 1 Kings 8:49
Some people even think there is more than one universe ( multi-verses )
So, God's heaven is Not the mid-heavens where the birds fly, nor outer space, but a specific undisclosed location.
Details to your questions can be answered during Jesus' coming 1,000-year governmental rulership over Earth begins.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

No, Not omnipresent according to the Bible.
God has a specific home location - 1 Kings 8:30; 1 Kings 8:39; 1 Kings 8:49
Some people even think there is more than one universe ( multi-verses )
So, God's heaven is Not the mid-heavens where the birds fly, nor outer space, but a specific undisclosed location.
Details to your questions can be answered during Jesus' coming 1,000-year governmental rulership over Earth begins.

God has a home location from which He comes and goes?

 

[Valjean]

I've heard He has this massive throne in Heaven He sits on all day, listening to sycophants singing and praising Him.
Me, I'd e bored silly in ten minutes, and annoyed shortly thereafter, but to each his own...

 

[URAVIP2ME]

God has a home location from which He comes and goes?

God does Not have to 'come and go' as we do from our home, but God sends forth his spirit to accomplish his purpose - Psalms 104:30

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I've heard He has this massive throne in Heaven He sits on all day, listening to sycophants singing and praising Him.
Me, I'd e bored silly in ten minutes, and annoyed shortly thereafter, but to each his own...

Both the size of God's throne, nor the size of Jesus' throne, are Not mentioned at Revelation 3:21.
A throne can stand for the seat of government - Matthew 19:28; Luke 22:30
Those called to heaven have two (2) jobs to do according to Revelation 5:9-10; Revelation 20:6
They govern with Christ over Earth for a thousand years:
1. They will serve mankind living on Earth as being ' kings ' to take care of governmental responsibilities for earth's people.
2. They will serve mankind living on Earth as being ' priests ' to take care of spiritual duties for earth's people.

So, if your Not called to heaven, then the other option open to us is to live forever on a beautiful paradisical Earth.
Starting with calendar Day One of Jesus' 1,000-year governmental rulership over Earth Jesus will undo or reverse all the damage Satan and Adam brought upon mankind. That means Jesus will Not only usher in global Peace on Earth for us, but also bring an end to enemy death on Earth - 1 Corinthians 15:26. No one will say, " I am sick..." - Isaiah 33:24. Mankind will see the return of the Genesis ' tree of life ' on Earth for the healing of earth's nations - Revelation 22:2. Could you be bored silly with happy-and-healthy physical health ?

 

[Ben Dhyan]

God does Not have to 'come and go' as we do from our home, but God sends forth his spirit to accomplish his purpose - Psalms 104:30

If God sends forth his spirit and then withdraws it....that is coming and going for God is the Spirit.. And presumably the Spirit goes forth into the space of this universe..yes?

 

[whirlingmerc]

I would say God is everywhere full strength and we live always 'Corum Deo' before the face of God
So the world is made Ex Deo and is Corum Deo

 

[Ben Dhyan]

I would say God is everywhere full strength and we live always 'Corum Deo' before the face of God
So the world is made Ex Deo and is Corum Deo

So if the universe is the manifestation of God, the manifestation is an aspect of God... Thus the one God is immanent in the manifestation and at the same time transcendent to it...God itself though is non-dual..

 

[whirlingmerc]

The universe is not a complete manifestation of GOd but can display some things

the angels saif 'hoy hoy hoy is the Lord almighty. Heaven and Earth are FILLED with His glory'
THe angels can't look on His holiness but the universe even a sin broken world beeding redemption can showcase some of His glory'

The universe shows some aspects of his infinity... his creativity...

The tiune nature of the universe with space time and matter... each a trinity in itself time: past present future ... space : length breadth height... matter: energy, momentum and state
gives a glimple of aspects of God but just a glipse and incomplete

Jesus is more the manifestation of who God is an what he's like

 

[gnostic]

I don't require proofs as I already know there's a God.

Actually, you don't "know" there is a god, loverofhumanity.

What you actually have, is "faith" and "belief" that there is a god. Meaning you "believe" there is a god.

There is a distinction between "believing" and "knowing".

With religion, it is all about "believing", and doesn't matter if what you believe in, is real or not, so you just accept it as if it was "real", hence this acceptance what people called "conviction" or "faith".

Knowing is different in the sense that it requires confirmation or verification.

The "knowledge" you think you have - all about your god (Allah), about the miracles (including resurrection and afterlife) and prophecies, about the text (Qur'an), and even about your prophet, are not really knowledge, because you have no way to "verify" they are all real or true.

What you really have, are again based on "belief" and "faith".

For instance, you believe - as all other Muslims do - that Muhammad met the archangel Gabriel, in 610 CE, which Muhammad claimed that angel came on behalf of Allah, and taught him the Qur'an.

But how do you or any Muslim know that Muhammad was speaking the truth?

No else had witnessed such a meeting between him and the angel. All you have is the hearsay of one man.

That's not "knowing", that's "believing", because there are no possible ways to verify what Muhammad say is true, and no way to verify the existence of archangel. How do you verify that the Qur'an come from the angel?

Like with the angel, the Qur'an is based on hearsay.

You believe that the scripture was transmitted from words of mouth, from Gabriel to Muhammad, because you believe that Muhammad was illiterate.

His illiteracy may be true, but Muhammad's direct source (Gabriel) is most likely not.

Muhammad was about 40 years old when he claimed to have met Gabriel. There have been Christian preachers coming and going in the Arabian peninsula for centuries, and there have been tribes of Jews living in the western coast of Arabia for some generations before Muhammad was born.

Not every converts to Christianity could read the gospels. Being capable to read is not a requirement to joining a religion. All it required is that Arabs listen with their ears to Christian preaching out in public.

You are forgetting that Jesus that didn't write anything down for anyone to read. All his teaching come from orally presenting to audience, whether within privacy of homes of his hosts, or for a much larger audience by speaking out in public, such as on the streets, or in the marketplace, or at the countryside.

Even his disciples or apostles learn from Jesus without reading materials. They would listen and memorise what being taught. And his disciples can pass on what they have learned to new audience.

Not everyone can read and write.

And Jews don't always rely on writing alone. Many of their stories were passed down through generations, hence oral tradition.

For example, there is the Written Torah, thus Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus and Numbers were recorded in scrolls and parchment, but there were also Oral Torah, which were passed down for generations, before they were written down by rabbis, starting from the fall of Jerusalem in 70 CE, in works, such as the Talmud, Midrash and Aggadah.

Some of the stories in the Aggadah, have found its way in the Qur'an. For instance, in Qur'an 27, you have King Solomon have the abilities to control winds and jinns, understand the languages of birds and ants. These abilities don't appear in the 1 Kings (bible), but they do appear in Jewish folklore in oral tradition and in the written Aggadah. The story about Solomon's gifts were greatly exaggerated. Jewish storytellers can easily tell these stories, without the need for people to read them.

Although I cannot show you any evidence that Muhammad learned all these stories from Jews and Christians, but they were present in Arabia, it is far more logical that the younger Muhammad heard all these stories from Jewish storytellers or Christian preachers than that an angel visited Muhammad.

According Muhammad's biography, Muhammad's uncle took him in, as a trader he took the orphan, to Syria. Do you Muhammad go to Syria, without hearing a single Christian preaching out in public?

And during that trip, one Syrian monk was said to have prophesied that Muhammad would become a prophet. But of course, there are no way to verify any of, because there are no reliable sources to Muhammad's life, and Islamic biographers and historians have the tendencies to exaggerate and distort any event in Muhammad's life, making it hard to verify anything.