Rick O'Shez
Irishman bouncing off walls
God is just an annoying image from Sunday School, like Father Christmas, childs' stuff. Get a grip! Grow up!
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A Universe from Nothing?
- Thread starter Tomorrows_Child
- Start date
God is just an annoying image from Sunday School, like Father Christmas, childs' stuff. Get a grip! Grow up!
YmirGF
Bodhisattva in Recovery
This thread just gets sillier and sillier ...
Ben Dhyan
Veteran Member
So creation and Creator occupy the same space....and since there is no nothing from which the creation came....creation came directly from the Creator and no where else...therefore there is an underlying unity to the manifestation....and that is God/Spirit... Hence inherent in man is the Divine....to transcend the physical world is to realize directly...not just intellectually/conceptually...the transcendent nature inherent in our being...
gnostic
The Lost One
Which truth is that?
There are damn too many different religions and philosophies.
And every religions and philosophies around the world claimed to have this "truth", often in opposition to each other, so they all can't be "true".
There are some religions and even few philosophies that claimed they have "absolute truth" or "ultimate truth". Personally, I think they (those who make such extravagant claims) have nothing more than BS. No, seriously, how can any group that have "ultimate" this or "absolute" that, be so sure of that, without being biased?
If people truly understood the words - "absolute" or "ultimate" - then everyone would and should see and agree with it. In the real world, everyone cannot be agreement, which means it is not truly absolute or ultimate.
You have religions or even sects within those religions arguing over others the scriptures, the dogmatic teachings, customs and practices, even will go so far as physically eliminating the other parties that disagree with them.
You will have philosophers doing the same things as religions, arguing incessantly, and putting their own brand of worldview at the expenses of others they dos agree with.
Let face it, willamena. Every philosophers and religious people (bishops, priests, clerics, or ordinary followers) will always put their own views or beliefs ahead of others, so each are subjected by their own egos and biases over what is the truth.
That being the case, how do you determine which is true? Does one religion or one philosophy give us a yardstick of how to measure the trueness of others? If so, which would you pick?
I am not saying that each don't have their own merits, and some have views and beliefs may be universal, but even when we agree with something, we may not agree with in other matters.
Heck, willamena. I don't follow strictly with just one philosophy.
Philosophically, with regards to religion, I am agnostic. I can stick strictly to being in the middle, or I can lean towards "theistic" or towards "atheistic", depending on what exactly we are discussing or arguing over.
Philosophically, with regards to cultures, I can see the pros-and-cons of east and west. I can choose whichever little points of view that best suit me, so I don't exclusively follow just the one.
And it is the same with philosophies that deal with rationality and intellect, where I pick which suit me from whole range of different philosophies. I don't have to adhere with just the one.
It is like my taste in arts and music. I can like certain styles or genres over others, while disliking others of the very same style or genre. It depends on what pleases my eyes or ears.
So whose bloody "truth" are you talking about? And why do you think they have the "truth"?
My point can be summarised to these:
If you have everyone, and I mean EVERYONE, agree with a single truth, then you just may have the truth. But the moment you have one person who is skeptical or in doubt, and disagree with this single view, then the "truth" may not be the truth at all.
gnostic
The Lost One
Yeah. I get them in my hairs...between my toes *that tickles*...in my pants and in all sorts of unmentionable places...
It is, a silly topic.
gnostic
The Lost One
I don't find anything so special about dying on "cross" (which wasn't a cross) or being illiterate.
And I don't see the Qur'an as a masterpiece. Each chapter or Surah, is not always consistent, because the verses don't often follow through naturally and in order; the next verse may be totally different subject to the previous verse, as if the author suffered from attention-disorder, jumping from one subject to another.
And if Allah is the true author, then he spend too much incessantly praised himself (eg egotistic or vain glory) in the third person, is really not my idea of a perfect book.
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What Scripture says that God made or created the universe from nothing ?
Isaiah 40:26 says God's ' power and strength ' was used to create the material/physical realm - Jeremiah 10:12; 27:5; 32:17
God's abundant 'power and strength' ( His dynamic energy ) is Not nothing.- Psalms 104:30
Ben Dhyan
Veteran Member
So what do understand the origin of the universe to be...nothing or something?
Truth itself. Truth distinguishes the proposition that is 'knowledge' from the same one merely 'believed.'
YmirGF
Bodhisattva in Recovery
Truth is relative to understanding however. What was true yesterday or a moment ago, in light of new information, may no longer be true.
Ben Dhyan
Veteran Member
Yes...truth is what is real....moment by moment...what is real is undergoing constant change...it can never be captured...
Thief
Rogue Theologian
not quite....
there is no need for a Spirit to encase Himself in dead things
He seeks the living
Thief
Rogue Theologian
merely believed?
some people hold truth as self-evident
and then proceed directly to political endeavor.
and what followed was obviously not true
you can believe anything if you rationalize and then turn stubborn about it.
the universe has been created .....true....
and yet debatable
the universe at some 'point' did not exist....true...
but creation out of a 'void' seems sooooooo debatable
and that a Spirit is lurking in the dark energy and matter.....might be true
and debatable
but I hold as much .......self evident
Thief
Rogue Theologian
can't separate creation from it's Creator.....only He can do that
He did
Spirit and substance are not the same thing
Ben Dhyan
Veteran Member
So where did these dead things come from?
Thief
Rogue Theologian
looking for God in all the wrong places.....doesn't helpYeah. I get them in my hairs...between my toes *that tickles*...in my pants and in all sorts of unmentionable places...
It is, a silly topic.
Thief
Rogue Theologian
the result of creating....by God
gnostic
The Lost One
I could rewrite the quote in bold, about religion:
some people hold truth as self-evident
and then proceed directly to religious endeavor.
and what followed was obviously not true
You can believe anything if you rationalise it and then turn stubborn about it.
and then proceed directly to religious endeavor.
and what followed was obviously not true
You can believe anything if you rationalise it and then turn stubborn about it.
That can apply to any religious person, especially if you are a creationist.
I think you are confusing truth with fact.
Truth, whether it be in religion or in philosophy, is very subjective, very much like personal opinion/view or belief, where a person's ego and bias can influence how they think or reason to reach the conclusion.
I like logic, but only if the logic is accompanied with evidences. The problem with philosophy is they tend to rationalise, and oversimplified what they call "truth".
If you want to be objective or impartial, then you have to remove one's bias out of equation, by relying on testable or verifiable evidences to reach the conclusions. That's fact, not truth.
Ben Dhyan
Veteran Member
Yes, that much I understand...but did God emanate these dead things or conjure them up from absolute nothing?