A Universe from Nothing?

[Willamena]

I think you are confusing truth with fact.

I doubt that. Fact is a statement of the case.

Truth, whether it be in religion or in philosophy, is very subjective, very much like personal opinion/view or belief, where a person's ego and bias can influence how they think or reason to reach the conclusion.

I like logic, but only if the logic is accompanied with evidences. The problem with philosophy is they tend to rationalise, and oversimplified what they call "truth".

If you want to be objective or impartial, then you have to remove one's bias out of equation, by relying on testable or verifiable evidences to reach the conclusions. That's fact, not truth.

Truth is what makes things objective. I cannot see it being subjective. If, on the other hand, you refer to beliefs, then I have no counter.

 

[loverofhumanity]

I don't find anything so special about dying on "cross" (which wasn't a cross) or being illiterate.

And I don't see the Qur'an as a masterpiece. Each chapter or Surah, is not always consistent, because the verses don't often follow through naturally and in order; the next verse may be totally different subject to the previous verse, as if the author suffered from attention-disorder, jumping from one subject to another.

And if Allah is the true author, then he spend too much incessantly praised himself (eg egotistic or vain glory) in the third person, is really not my idea of a perfect book.

Considering Their circumstances They had a remarkable influence on human history.

 

[Thief]

So creation and Creator occupy the same space....and since there is no nothing from which the creation came....creation came directly from the Creator and no where else...therefore there is an underlying unity to the manifestation....and that is God/Spirit... Hence inherent in man is the Divine....to transcend the physical world is to realize directly...not just intellectually/conceptually...the transcendent nature inherent in our being...

you are taping (typing) one notion to another.....

before substance.....Spirit
after the formation of substance (creation).....both....
not occupying the same space (or substance)

I don't confuse the creation with the Creator

and this item called Man.....
is the means of forming unique spirit on each occasion of life and living

transcend?.....from this bodily life to spiritual life?........yeah
but the word....transformation....
is more suitable

you shall become in spiritual form what your spirit really is....

 

[`mud]

Ben asked from where I thought the 'everything' came.
The first answer is the singularity of course !
But the studious preist just had the 'size' of singularity wrong.
It's like the word 'truth', it really points to the 'nothingness',
the area of the existance of everything, or nothing!
There will be the explaination of what "truth" is, and not before that time.
And "truths" are not always "facts", "truths" don't really persist.
Maybe the Cosmos is blending into itself and other "cosmos'" in the "nothingness"
But.......it takes a lot of 'time'...and that doesn't really exist !
The 'True Cosmos' is a cannibal, feeding upon itself,
all of the rest of it is crap, resulting from the previous feast !
~
I don't really know, but it's fun to guess, sans 'gods'.
~
'mud

 

[Thief]

I could rewrite the quote in bold, about religion:

some people hold truth as self-evident
and then proceed directly to religious endeavor.
and what followed was obviously not true

You can believe anything if you rationalise it and then turn stubborn about it.​

That can apply to any religious person, especially if you are a creationist.



I think you are confusing truth with fact.

Truth, whether it be in religion or in philosophy, is very subjective, very much like personal opinion/view or belief, where a person's ego and bias can influence how they think or reason to reach the conclusion.

I like logic, but only if the logic is accompanied with evidences. The problem with philosophy is they tend to rationalise, and oversimplified what they call "truth".

If you want to be objective or impartial, then you have to remove one's bias out of equation, by relying on testable or verifiable evidences to reach the conclusions. That's fact, not truth.

there will never be an equation for spiritual belief.....
(how many times have I posted that notion?)

there will never be a photo, a fingerprint, an equation or repeatable experiment

when it comes to God.....all you CAN do is think .....

 

[Rick O'Shez]

I don't really know, but it's fun to guess, sans 'gods'.

Who needs religious woo when we have quantum woo?!

 

[Rick O'Shez]

there will never be an equation for spiritual belief.....

Here it is!

Fear + need + confirmation bias + wishful thinking = religious belief.

 

[Thief]

Here it is!

Fear + need + confirmation bias + wishful thinking = religious belief.

I'm not religious

 

[Ben Dhyan]

you are taping (typing) one notion to another.....

before substance.....Spirit
after the formation of substance (creation).....both....
not occupying the same space (or substance)

I don't confuse the creation with the Creator

and this item called Man.....
is the means of forming unique spirit on each occasion of life and living

transcend?.....from this bodily life to spiritual life?........yeah
but the word....transformation....
is more suitable

you shall become in spiritual form what your spirit really is....

Ok...so spirit and substance do not occupy the same space....so how can man form a unique spirit in life if spirit is not present in the substance of the body?

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Ben asked from where I thought the 'everything' came.
The first answer is the singularity of course !
But the studious preist just had the 'size' of singularity wrong.
It's like the word 'truth', it really points to the 'nothingness',
the area of the existance of everything, or nothing!
There will be the explaination of what "truth" is, and not before that time.
And "truths" are not always "facts", "truths" don't really persist.
Maybe the Cosmos is blending into itself and other "cosmos'" in the "nothingness"
But.......it takes a lot of 'time'...and that doesn't really exist !
The 'True Cosmos' is a cannibal, feeding upon itself,
all of the rest of it is crap, resulting from the previous feast !
~
I don't really know, but it's fun to guess, sans 'gods'.
~
'mud

Haha...very funny.....

 

[Thief]

Ok...so spirit and substance do not occupy the same space....so how can man form a unique spirit in life if spirit is not present in the substance of the body?

excellent rebuttal!.......atta boy!

fair and true....we seem to have a chain binding spirit to body
we awake each morning to see that same face in the mirror

and would we not be beside ourselves .....literally.....if we did not!!!!!!

and yet it must come to pass....we shed this mortal coil and become what we really are

as for God.....
I do not believe God walks in the flesh, nor embodies a large clump of substance.
as Spirit formed in the darkness of the void...
His formation is a mystery
prior to the creation He dealt.....how could He say?....
I AM!

 

[Ben Dhyan]

excellent rebuttal!.......atta boy!

fair and true....we seem to have a chain binding spirit to body
we awake each morning to see that same face in the mirror

and would we not be beside ourselves .....literally.....if we did not!!!!!!

and yet it must come to pass....we shed this mortal coil and become what we really are

as for God.....
I do not believe God walks in the flesh, nor embodies a large clump of substance.
as Spirit formed in the darkness of the void...
His formation is a mystery
prior to the creation He dealt.....how could He say?....
I AM!

Correct.there is a 'chain' of sorts binding God/spirit to the body....

In the mystical tradition, this 'chain' is generally seen arbitrarily of being composed of seven links or centers or chakras or heavens or hells or lokas and talas. In any event the esoteric teaching explains that there is only one Divine substance....the spirit of God....and its vibrations mix and combine to resonate at lower harmonics akin to musical octaves such that at the lowest of the seven octaves, the physical level...the God spirit has involuted to the 'rock' state....ie. the atomic level...which appears as a spherical cloud constituted of smaller various standing waves...ie. stationary...of divine energy.. Having reached rock bottom, the energy evolves upwards through the seven levels to the highest level to be liberated or unite with the infinite highest vibration...the IAM level...

1 Corinthians 3:16

 

[Rick O'Shez]

I'm not religious

You believe in God and spirit first. Those are religious beliefs.

 

[gnostic]

You believe in God and spirit first. Those are religious beliefs.

I was going to say the same thing.

That he believe in creator and creation, also say that he is religion. That he believe in heaven and hell, resurrection, afterlife, the gospels, Jesus, etc. All that would make him religious, even if he doesn't follow any specific sect or church.

 

[gnostic]

there will never be an equation for spiritual belief.....
(how many times have I posted that notion?)

there will never be a photo, a fingerprint, an equation or repeatable experiment

when it comes to God.....all you CAN do is think .....

Then God or Spirit is simply wild imagination, hallucination, delusion; God is not real.

Pick your poison?

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Then God or Spirit is simply wild imagination, hallucination, delusion; God is not real.

That does solve the paradox.

 

[Thief]

Ok...so spirit and substance do not occupy the same space....so how can man form a unique spirit in life if spirit is not present in the substance of the body?

as soon as science finds that link.....I'll let you know

I don't think of God as human

do you?

 

[Thief]

That does solve the paradox.

and leaves the existence of Man as a complete mystery

no purpose

no hope of continuance

 

[Thief]

Then God or Spirit is simply wild imagination, hallucination, delusion; God is not real.

Pick your poison?

you mean.....that forbidden fruit?

it's too late

and I shall surely die

 

[Thief]

Correct.there is a 'chain' of sorts binding God/spirit to the body....

In the mystical tradition, this 'chain' is generally seen arbitrarily of being composed of seven links or centers or chakras or heavens or hells or lokas and talas. In any event the esoteric teaching explains that there is only one Divine substance....the spirit of God....and its vibrations mix and combine to resonate at lower harmonics akin to musical octaves such that at the lowest of the seven octaves, the physical level...the God spirit has involuted to the 'rock' state....ie. the atomic level...which appears as a spherical cloud constituted of smaller various standing waves...ie. stationary...of divine energy.. Having reached rock bottom, the energy evolves upwards through the seven levels to the highest level to be liberated or unite with the infinite highest vibration...the IAM level...

1 Corinthians 3:16

the scripture text would have been enough but then to continue....

I think I am in this particular body......all by myself

and the intent of that is to be sure I become unique
and to that end.....my fate is my fault