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A Universe from Nothing?

`mud

`mud

Just old
Premium Member
hey Thief,
When I can figure out how to hold on to my cognizance,
I'll join you out there in the away zone.
Till then....I think I understand.
~
'mud
 
gnostic

gnostic

The Lost One
Willamena said:
I doubt that. Fact is a statement of the case.
Click to expand...
No, willamena.

Truth and fact are both statements. The difference is this.

Fact is the probability that it is "true" or "not true", depending if you are verifying or refuting a premise of statement (eg in science, the premise could be explanatory statements or predictions in a theory or hypothesis).

Determining what is true or what is untrue, come from probability of gathered observations (eg observation can be results or data via repeated tests or experimentations, or finding empirical evidences). The number of evidences, tests and data, will show what is probable, improbable or inconclusive. Fact is quantifiable, measurable, verifiable.

Truth is merely statement of belief, that don't necessarily require evidences or verification.

A mother's love for children can be true, is more of statement of truth (belief) than fact. Can you say it is the truth in all instances or in all cases?

There are possibilities where she she don't love them, or perhaps favour one over the others, or she may be indifferent to her children. It really depends on individual case.

Human emotions and behaviours are not measurable, because here are just too many variables to human psyche.

Sometimes, truth and fact, go hand-in-hand, but whenever someone bring up supernatural events, like miracles, or resurrection, or supernatural beings, like gods, angels, demons or jinns, facts goes out the window, and you would be left with a person's or group of people's version of the truth.

Truth is like what take place in a courtroom. Each eyewitness will give testimony of what they have seen or heard. Each person could be telling the truth, but they might seen or heard the whole event.

Say for instance, a man shot dead a woman, then run off and dish his gun on the scene. Another man rush to the scene, and it is seen standing over her body by you, getting blood on himself (eg checking for pulse). You arrived later, and that's all you see, a man kneeling over the dead woman. Perhaps you would assume this man with blood on his hands, is the killer. If the police didn't investigate as thoroughly as they should and arrested the man based on your testimony, like not finding prints on the murder weapon or check for gunshot residues on the 2nd man's hands and clothing, they would have arrested and prosecuted the wrong man.

Facts required investigation, and required more than one person's testimony, even if that person is telling the truth. Testimonies, motives, etc, are all subjective, facts required actual evidences, and more objective approach.
 
Thief

Thief

Rogue Theologian
throw the word....probability ......to support the word....fact

and you have lost the word....fact

and we all have truths
are mine the same as yours?
probably...........not

truth in a court room?......maybe
hope so....
 
gnostic

gnostic

The Lost One
Thief said:
and we all have truths
are mine the same as yours?
probably...........not
Click to expand...
That's the reason why "truth" is so unreliable. Everyone got their own versions of what they think they call "truth".

Thief said:
throw the word....probability ......to support the word....fact

and you have lost the word....fact
Click to expand...
I am not lost that you don't understand how science you works, thief.

You have made it abundantly clear that you are ignorant when it come to science.

Probability is another form of statistics, when you count the number hits against the number of misses. Comparing the two, you will have the probability of what's true and what's false.

As it stand, there are more evidences supporting evolution as biological mechanisms for change than there are evidences for gravity. Understanding gravity is still an on-going process and less understood than evolution. We have Newton's theory on gravity, but this theory become outdated when dealing with objects in space, moving close to the speed of light. So General Relativity supersede Newtonian gravity, when dealing with astronomical knowledge. Then you have Quantum Mechanics, which deal with particles smaller than the lightest atoms, where gravity is different again to what Einstein had demonstrated with GR.

The theory on gravity will or could change again, if they can ever verify and test Superstring theory.

There is still one theory on Evolution, with just some more newer mechanisms introduced in the 20th century.
 
Thief

Thief

Rogue Theologian
and when it all comes down to biting the dust......you have the truth....

and you expect to carry on looking for petri dishes?
equations?
the photo in your wallet?

I deny the characterization.....that I don't know science

in return....there are many who make denial
for the shallow retort
for the personal comfort of not facing a God
for the relief of no continuance....as doing so might require greater discipline than this life
 
Willamena

Willamena

Just me
Premium Member
gnostic said:
No, willamena.

Truth and fact are both statements. The difference is this.

Fact is the probability that it is "true" or "not true", depending if you are verifying or refuting a premise of statement (eg in science, the premise could be explanatory statements or predictions in a theory or hypothesis).

Determining what is true or what is untrue, come from probability of gathered observations (eg observation can be results or data via repeated tests or experimentations, or finding empirical evidences). The number of evidences, tests and data, will show what is probable, improbable or inconclusive. Fact is quantifiable, measurable, verifiable.

Truth is merely statement of belief, that don't necessarily require evidences or verification.

A mother's love for children can be true, is more of statement of truth (belief) than fact. Can you say it is the truth in all instances or in all cases?

There are possibilities where she she don't love them, or perhaps favour one over the others, or she may be indifferent to her children. It really depends on individual case.

Human emotions and behaviours are not measurable, because here are just too many variables to human psyche.

Sometimes, truth and fact, go hand-in-hand, but whenever someone bring up supernatural events, like miracles, or resurrection, or supernatural beings, like gods, angels, demons or jinns, facts goes out the window, and you would be left with a person's or group of people's version of the truth.

Truth is like what take place in a courtroom. Each eyewitness will give testimony of what they have seen or heard. Each person could be telling the truth, but they might seen or heard the whole event.

Say for instance, a man shot dead a woman, then run off and dish his gun on the scene. Another man rush to the scene, and it is seen standing over her body by you, getting blood on himself (eg checking for pulse). You arrived later, and that's all you see, a man kneeling over the dead woman. Perhaps you would assume this man with blood on his hands, is the killer. If the police didn't investigate as thoroughly as they should and arrested the man based on your testimony, like not finding prints on the murder weapon or check for gunshot residues on the 2nd man's hands and clothing, they would have arrested and prosecuted the wrong man.

Facts required investigation, and required more than one person's testimony, even if that person is telling the truth. Testimonies, motives, etc, are all subjective, facts required actual evidences, and more objective approach.
Click to expand...
Probability, belief and truth are different things, as I use them.
 
Ben Dhyan

Ben Dhyan

Veteran Member
It is true that many people believe they know the truth....but truth is not belief...and belief is not truth....and that is the truth. Truth is simply what is...it needs not interpretation...try to grasp it and it ends up belief..
 
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