A Universe from Nothing?

[Ben Dhyan]

Quote-mining is not practising. You come across as a theist with Hindu leanings, a DIY religioner. You are certainly not a Zennie.

Quote mining? ...Do you mean like quoting the Heart Sutra, etc? No, my practice is dhyan...which is the Sankrit word for Chan/Zen..still mind meditation

 

[`mud]

Don't forget to take your cognizance,
those going on a distant trip,
they might not recognize one,
don't forget your idols.
~
I'm with that nasty woman !
~
'mud

 

[godnotgod]

Shouting and screaming in red and blue ink - how very "Zen" of you!

Thanks. Zen does tend to be shocking at times. Maybe the red/magenta ink will awaken you at long last so you can see what a complete *** you've been.

This is the fake Buddha quote I was particularly referring to, though I am sure you have posted others:

"Poverty is your greatest treasure. Never exchange it for a rich and easy life"
Buddha
*****

"Negate negation"
Buddha
*****

Yup. 100% authentic

As for the Zen quotes, I just don't find them very interesting, been there, done that.

I find them...well...enlightening. Besides, dearie: they weren't posted just for you.

What I object to is the way you dump them at random into discussions in an attempt to pose as a Zennie, which you are clearly not.

Actually, they all were germane to the discussion. The fact that you simply don't understand them explains why you find them meaningless. I suggest you go peel more potatoes to sharpen your intuitive faculties.

You are just an egocentric Chopra-clone who hijacks threads to preach new-age dogma.

Aw, thanks. I just love Dr. Chopra, and the way he exposes those stiff silly charlatans such as Dawkins, don't you?

Cheers!

 

[godnotgod]

Don't forget to take your cognizance,
those going on a distant trip,
they might not recognize one,
don't forget your idols.
~
I'm with that nasty woman !
~
'mud

Seek anonymity.

Then everyone will know who you are, ha ha

 

[godnotgod]

I can't take sides I haven't got a clue who's right about what. I am just wondering what Buddha would have thought about your behavior if he was around now.

Not sure. But whole groups of monks have been known to split off due to sharp disagreements to form a brand new sect at times. Theravada has been referred to by one Buddhist scholar as 'a quiet but stagnant backwater', while mystical Zen is far more dynamic and immediate.

At my very first Zen encounter/lecture, the first words out of the monk's mouth announced:

"If any of you have in your libraries the books by DT Suzuki*, BURN THEM!"

*a famous Zen scholar who brought Zen to the West.

 

[ak.yonathan]

At my very first Zen encounter/lecture, the first words out of the monk's mouth announced:

"If any of you have in your libraries the books by DT Suzuki*, BURN THEM!"

*a famous Zen scholar who brought Zen to the West.

I don't think that is very Zen-like of him to say, or even very Buddhist-like, considering how Buddhism is very much against ignorance. Ignorance is viewed as the root of all suffering (because it leads to desire, which is the actual cause of suffering), so why would that monk say something like that?

 

[YmirGF]

The point is that you claim you saw Vishnu.....all else is immaterial....

For someone who implies to have such an intuitive grasp of reality you certainly can be as thick as a fence post. So, I am right, your perception is clouded by your beliefs about the nature of reality. Fascinating.

 

[YmirGF]

Quote-mining is not practising. You come across as a theist with Hindu leanings, a DIY religioner. You are certainly not a Zennie.

I've always considered relying on the quotes of others to be akin to cheating as one is making the rather large assumption that the writer of the quote is in agreement with the poster.

 

[YmirGF]

I find it strange that you are lecturing me on how I should think about Nirvana when you are not even a Buddhist. That is weird.

Such personality type are inclined to lecture anyone on the proper methods they should take. No doubt they would also be inclined to instruct Christians, Muslims and Jews...

 

[`mud]

Ahhhhhh.......so many wasted prayers.
To the same God.
~
'mud

 

[godnotgod]

I don't think that is very Zen-like of him to say, or even very Buddhist-like, considering how Buddhism is very much against ignorance. Ignorance is viewed as the root of all suffering (because it leads to desire, which is the actual cause of suffering), so why would that monk say something like that?

Oh, it is very Zen. One of the hallmarks of Zen is shock. The koan is a perfect example. It is designed to short-circuit the thinking mind.

"What is the sound of one hand clapping?"

There are two things about what the monk said: one is that DT Suzuki's books are outdated, and the second is that Zen relies primarily on direct apprehension and immediate experience, the written word being only secondary in importance. There have been several reports of Zen practitioners around the world who, on the day of their Enlightenment, have gathered up the scriptures and burned them. No written word can compare to the actual experience. They are just 'a finger pointing to the Moon, but is not the moon itself', as Zen itself tells us. The great Indian monk, Bodhidharma, who brought Zen to China, describes Zen as follows:

"A special transmission outside the scriptures,
No dependence on words and letters.
Directly pointing to one’s heart,
Seeing into one’s own true nature and thus attaining Spiritual Awakening."


You're right about ignorance, so Zennists need not practice that which would nurture ignorance, such as mistaking the description of Reality for Reality itself, probably THE most common error in thinking humans make.

"First, there is a mountain;
then, there is no mountain;
then, there is"

 

[Ben Dhyan]

For someone who implies to have such an intuitive grasp of reality you certainly can be as thick as a fence post. So, I am right, your perception is clouded by your beliefs about the nature of reality. Fascinating.

You can be as snide as you like....we all know why you are doing it.... it is because I am asking about your claim to have personally seen Vishnu.. Btw, this is a serious question....how did you recognize the entity as Vishnu....did he tell you or was it something he was holding such as conch shell?

 

[YmirGF]

You can be as snide as you like....we all know why you are doing it.... it is because I am asking about your claim to have personally seen Vishnu..

Hehe.... Yes, I looked directly into the eyes of Vishnu. Feel better. That, however, turned out to be window dressing for the experience that followed/mushroomed out of what I saw therein.

Btw, this is a serious question....how did you recognize the entity as Vishnu....did he tell you or was it something he was holding such as conch shell?

I was into ISKCON at the time and was quite entranced by all things Vishnu. Unlike the fancy pictures one sees, the image was completely naked, had no genitalia, had 4 arms, but was not holding any of the items customarily depicted and was the most incredible multi-hued blue one could possibly imagine... and it glowed... with a rather dazzling yellow/white light. No doubt you will feel a need to correct something about this. But... I repeat, that was the window dressing for what came next.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Hehe.... Yes, I looked directly into the eyes of Vishnu. Feel better. That, however, turned out to be window dressing for the experience that followed/mushroomed out of what I saw therein.


I was into ISKCON at the time and was quite entranced by all things Vishnu. Unlike the fancy pictures one sees, the image was completely naked, had no genitalia, had 4 arms, but was not holding any of the items customarily depicted and was the most incredible multi-hued blue one could possibly imagine... and it glowed... with a rather dazzling yellow/white light. No doubt you will feel a need to correct something about this. But... I repeat, that was the window dressing for what came next.

Ok....thanks for that....I found a more comprehensive description of your experience here..
#15

"Summia when I was 21 years old I have several stunning visions, the others are not your concern but one was an 8 hour "meeting" with the Hindu God known as Lord Vishnu. Quite honestly you could have knocked me over with a feather, hehe. It was really more incredible than ANYTHING you can personally imagine and the reason I say that is frankly there is no possibility that I was imagining it nor could I possibly have imagined such an astounding thing. The amusing thing is that he never did say a word. Not a single word... but my mind was constantly flooded by an unfathomable feeling of love and warmth. It did not occur to me to say a single word to him. It is far too incredible as one is quite speechless. The neato thing is that you don't need words to communicate... much like two lovers only need to glance at each other to pass volumes of information between them."

Hmmm.....but if you are an atheist...do you now believe it was not Vishnu?

 

[james bond]

Sorry, but whether it was your intent or not, you are still contradicting yourself, as I explained. Taking refuge in the Buddha is to surrender self-control, because it is self and it's associated problems that are the reason refuge is taken in the Buddha in the first place.

The question is: who is it that is controlling himself?

Do you see the dilemma?

Taking refuge in Buddah, Dharma and Sangha doesn't bother me, but you bother me. Go away.

 

[godnotgod]

Taking refuge in Buddah, Dharma and Sangha doesn't bother me, but you bother me. Go away.

Sure, but I will leave you with one last question to ponder on your own:

Who is it that is taking refuge?

I'm not kidding. Sorry you are 'bothered'.

Taking refuge is not the problem; why you do is the problem.

Bye.....

(note: some exhibit more powerful attachments to the illusory self than others, and become quite bothered and even angry when this is pointed out, making them cling to it even more tenaciously. OUCH!)

 

[godnotgod]

I can't take sides I haven't got a clue who's right about what. I am just wondering what Buddha would have thought about your behavior if he was around now.

BTW, to answer your question as to whether you have two selves: You have just one, The Self, which is real, playing the fictional self, like an actor playing a character in a drama. Sometimes the actor gets taken in completely and believes himself to be the character, completely forgetting his true Self.

 

[Thief]

BTW, to answer your question as to whether you have two selves: You have just one, The Self, which is real, playing the fictional self, like an actor playing a character in a drama. Sometimes the actor gets taken in completely and believes himself to be the character, completely forgetting his true Self.

the persona is real
the proof will be your response

you will respond....you can't help yourself

 

[godnotgod]

the persona is real
the proof will be your response

you will respond....you can't help yourself

'We shall prepare a face to meet the faces that we meet'
TS Elliot

THAT is the persona, the corollary to the shadow.

What's 'real' about it?

 

[james bond]

Sure, but I will leave you with one last question to ponder on your own:

Who is it that is taking refuge?

I'm not kidding. Sorry you are 'bothered'.

Taking refuge is not the problem; why you do is the problem.

Bye.....

(note: some exhibit more powerful attachments to the illusory self than others, and become quite bothered and even angry when this is pointed out, making them cling to it even more tenaciously. OUCH!)

Ha ha. Last point first. Nothing really to ponder. Some things are simple. Taking refuge is not the problem and why I do or the people that do are not the problem. I can see you do not see the problem.

The ones taking refuge are the ones who have faith in Buddha and his teachings. It is the fundamental of any religion including atheism.

"Nothing from nothing leaves nothing. You gotta have something if you wanna be with me." - Billy Preston.