Abolition of Alcohol

[ecco]

it is the right thing to do for the good of all people and in the end, people will want to do the right thing for the good of all people.

As in everyone is doing the right thing and getting vaccinated.

Viewing the world through rose-colored glasses solves nothing.

 

[ecco]

If only cannabis could be purchased from licenced premises then our police could spend so much more time on deterring and catching burglaries rapes robberies etc.
And it could be taxed.
And fewer gangs etc.

It's currently happening in the USA. Considering that Nixon led the war against drugs movement to the UN, it's rather surprising that we are also leading the way back to sanity.

The next big step is to allow the banks to handle drug money. Currently, there are Federal laws against it. That means that all purchases at licensed cannabis shops must be paid in cash - no credit cards accepted.


ETA: Cannabis sales are taxed by every state that has legalized their sale for "medical" or recreational use. The "medical only - not recreational" states like Florida are a joke. Anyone can go to a medical marijuana doctor, pay $85 and the doctor will find reasons to prescribe pot in a variety of forms.

 

[ecco]

The best environmemt is a strong mind that enableds one to make the choice not to use alcohol or drugs.

The best environment is a nation of rational laws that enable individuals to make the choice of whether or not to use alcohol or drugs.

Ya know, using that Free Will that your God ostensibly instilled in mankind.

 

[PureX]

That is where we have a different frame of reference.

I beleive all actions we take, for the good of all, do have a positive reverberation through humanity. I see our mind is connected and we all draw upon the same human spirit.

That is why we are asked to become one in thought by the Messengers, as to reach our full potential we need to work together as if we are One Soul in one body.

That bond starts between husband and wife, on to family, community, city, nation and now the world.

Regards Tony

I am a recovered alcoholic and I have known many other alcoholics both in recovery, and not. And I can tell you that an active alcoholic will not abstain from drinking alcohol just because it's illegal, or because it's universally declared "immoral", or because it's not for sale. He/she will make it themselves, and will create a network with those others who are willing to thwart the law and culture, alcoholic or not. And there will be many that will do so. So to demand that the rest of society abstain from doing something that gives them joy, and helps them have fun with each other, is NOT going to result in a positive reverberation through humanity. It would be just a foolish and selfish request based on a false premise.

As a recovered alcoholic, myself, I understand that I cannot ever drink alcohol again. Yet I am often in situations where those around me wish to drink alcohol and enjoy themselves and each other, doing it. And I would NEVER ask them to refrain from something they enjoy, and that they can do responsibly, just because I cannot. I would be ashamed to do that. My problem with alcohol is not their fault, and is not their responsibility to correct. I feel bad when they think they need to refrain from drinking an alcoholic drink just because I'm there and must abstain. I don't want to be the cause of them denying themselves something they enjoy. And I am not suddenly going to drink just because they are. And even if I felt such an urge, I would leave. Because it's my issue to deal with, not theirs.

My point is that even the alcoholic would be humiliated to your request for societal abstinence. There's just no benefit in it for anyone. And anyway, it simply would not work.

 

[PureX]

I had a good friend that was a Councillor of addiction to drug and alcohol.

He visited us and noticed the effort that was being undertaken by quite a few of us to help the addicted in our town in the late 1980's and early 1990's. At that time it was nearly all Alcohol related.

He advised us then, leave that to the experts as the percentage that can change will be minimal. He advised us to start educating the children, as that is the only way to save the vast majority.

Prevention is better than a cure, it is the real Elixer.

Regards Tony

Education is good. If nothing else it will help those who are not alcoholic deal better with those who become alcoholic. But it will NOT stop anyone from becoming an alcoholic. You could have educated me fully on the dangers of alcoholism, and I can tell you it would have made no difference. I was 12 the first time I drank alcohol and got drunk, and I absolutely fell IN LOVE with the feeling. Nothing would have stopped me from immediately wanting to do it again. And again, and again. My brain was genetically preprogrammed to respond to alcohol with a feeling of intense euphoria. And that it did. To me, at that time, it was the most amazing and wonderful feeling I'd ever felt. And nothing was going to stop me from feeling that, again.

Your Councillor was right. Most alcoholics will die in their addiction. As will most drug addicts. And once they have that initial experience with it, nothing will dissuade them from wanting more of it. Education up front may help, but I wouldn't count on it helping, much. Like I said, it will help the people who care about the addict/alcoholic, more. As it may help them to understand that addiction is a kind of insanity. And that the addict can't see it for what it really is. And even when they do, they can't stop engaging in their obsession with it.

If you really want to try and understand this better, read the book Alcoholic Anonymous, and go to some open AA meetings. Talk with those who know this illness first hand. Listen to their stories. You will quickly discover what a difficult disease it is to try and recover from. And that self-will, alone, will not get it done. But I do greatly commend your desire to help.

 

[amorphous_constellation]

So, because 25% have a problem you'd rather end it all for 100%, punish the 75% who consume responsibly, all just to avoid teaching responsible consumption and force the 25% into speakeasies and bathtub gin?

Like I already said to you in post 443, I'm not interested in regulation as much as other methods. I think that in culture, someone engineered the choices that get made. Wisconsin is associated with alcohol. That choice, to associate the state with alcohol, was made before I was born. And I'll say again, the main problem with alcohol is that the individual doing it often affects others. If that wasn't the case, I would not care. One in four people is no joke. Everyone I know is affected, no matter how much they do drink.

Ultimately I am interested in a society where anyone can do the wrong thing, but they never do, just out of the robustness of their character and culture

 

[SomeRandom]

Of the teachers I knew, most were far more afraid of teaching about sexuality than about booze, although the booze and drug curriculums were often loaded with fear tactics that were outright lies.

Whoa your teachers lied to you about drugs? I remember there was definite fear in the teaching of drug abuse in my school. But it all was still based on the science. Maybe a little hyperbolic here and there, but never lies in the curriculum. Maybe that’s changed since I went to school, I dunno

 

[Vinayaka]

Whoa your teachers lied to you about drugs? I remember there was definite fear in the teaching of drug abuse in my school. But it all was still based on the science. Maybe a little hyperbolic here and there, but never lies in the curriculum. Maybe that’s changed since I went to school, I dunno

I don't know your age, but this was the 60s. There was no intentional lying. After all they were just following the curriculum, or what the anti-drug lobby had been saying for years. Basically it was 'Drugs are Bad."

With regard to my first comment, that was from when I taught, and it was about other teachers.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Viewing the world through rose-colored glasses solves nothing.

I like to view the world in the light of our potential, not of our mistakes.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

My point is that even the alcoholic would be humiliated to your request for societal abstinence. There's just no benefit in it for anyone. And anyway, it simply would not work.

We can not see the future. I know the potential is in us all to make that choice.

Well done to you.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Education is good. If nothing else it will help those who are not alcoholic deal better with those who become alcoholic. But it will NOT stop anyone from becoming an alcoholic. You could have educated me fully on the dangers of alcoholism, and I can tell you it would have made no difference. I was 12 the first time I drank alcohol and got drunk, and I absolutely fell IN LOVE with the feeling. Nothing would have stopped me from immediately wanting to do it again. And again, and again. My brain was genetically preprogrammed to respond to alcohol with a feeling of intense euphoria. And that it did. To me, at that time, it was the most amazing and wonderful feeling I'd ever felt. And nothing was going to stop me from feeling that, again.

Your Councillor was right. Most alcoholics will die in their addiction. As will most drug addicts. And once they have that initial experience with it, nothing will dissuade them from wanting more of it. Education up front may help, but I wouldn't count on it helping, much. Like I said, it will help the people who care about the addict/alcoholic, more. As it may help them to understand that addiction is a kind of insanity. And that the addict can't see it for what it really is. And even when they do, they can't stop engaging in their obsession with it.

If you really want to try and understand this better, read the book Alcoholic Anonymous, and go to some open AA meetings. Talk with those who know this illness first hand. Listen to their stories. You will quickly discover what a difficult disease it is to try and recover from. And that self-will, alone, will not get it done. But I do greatly commend your desire to help.

Really I have to offer, that to me that just helps the case of there being no Alcohol to start with.

Again well done.

Regards Tony

 

[Truthseeker]

Claiming to speak for god is a distortion of reality. We've learned and know better since that passed for being something to take on faith. Having spiritual experiences we've learned and know the brain is doing stuff.

May we all seek reality.

 

[Truthseeker]

The reasons I had for drinking to excess were addressed, and now I just have a drink or two every once in awhile.

Glad to hear it. Yes, the reasons for anyone to drink should be addressed.

 

[Truthseeker]

Education is good. If nothing else it will help those who are not alcoholic deal better with those who become alcoholic. But it will NOT stop anyone from becoming an alcoholic. You could have educated me fully on the dangers of alcoholism, and I can tell you it would have made no difference. I was 12 the first time I drank alcohol and got drunk, and I absolutely fell IN LOVE with the feeling. Nothing would have stopped me from immediately wanting to do it again.

That's why children should be warned it could happen to them if they take a drink at all.

And that self-will, alone, will not get it done. But I do greatly commend your desire to help.

The underlying reason for drinking would help. AA is not enough.

 

[oldbadger]

It's currently happening in the USA. Considering that Nixon led the war against drugs movement to the UN, it's rather surprising that we are also leading the way back to sanity.

The next big step is to allow the banks to handle drug money. Currently, there are Federal laws against it. That means that all purchases at licensed cannabis shops must be paid in cash - no credit cards accepted.


ETA: Cannabis sales are taxed by every state that has legalized their sale for "medical" or recreational use. The "medical only - not recreational" states like Florida are a joke. Anyone can go to a medical marijuana doctor, pay $85 and the doctor will find reasons to prescribe pot in a variety of forms.

The backflips that we manage in order to redact previous stupidities....
Over here (UK) our police would HATE the drug laws to be redacted because they would lose SO MUCH power! At present they can stop any vehicle and if they think that they can perceive a cannabis smell inside the vehicle then they can search everybody and the vehicle. All our stop/search regulations can go out of the window. Quite often we watch huge police chases on cop-telly programs and where the guns or loot or bags of heroin were NOT found after a chase-crash-crunch episode the cops will still be alright if a passenger had a wrap of grass in pocket. And so one.

I don't know what % of arrests here is over a single wrap of junk but many constabularies would look very daft without this number to add to their 'we did it' tally. Legalise cannabis and I don't think that cops here would know what to do...... they would have to patrol to deter, and attend burglaries etc. ........................... can't have that.

rant...rant....rant.... mornin' rant over......

 

[PureX]

That's why children should be warned it could happen to them if they take a drink at all.

But soon enough they will discover that the warnings were BS (for most of them). And for those in danger, the warnings will not likely dissuade them for long. It's in the nature of young people to test the warnings.

The underlying reason for drinking would help. AA is not enough.

Often it's genetic. And complex. And somewhat inexplicable.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

But soon enough they will discover that the warnings were BS (for most of them). And for those in danger, the warnings will not likely dissuade them for long. It's in the nature of young people to test the warnings

The good thing is there is moral and virtue education that is given as an empowerment for them in their latter choices.

You teach a child at a young age that it is not a moral choice and then show them with your life what is a moral choice, then the majority wil also want to make those choices.

We were failed as children, we have failed our children, liberty and materialism has destroyed our spirituality.

I read a really good talk Abdul'baha delivered on that topic in a church in America in around 1912. The poor old pastor cut some fleack from his parishioners allowing him to do that, at a Sunday service no less. Abdu'l baha spent around 312 days in America giving talks on Oneness, Peace, Equalitlty and race relations al across America. Some of the talks delivered also covered this topic.

Education in Virtues and Morality and empowering children to firstly act them out and as they progress let then offer service to the community, can and does change us all for the better.

Regards Tony

 

[Truthseeker]

But soon enough they will discover that the warnings were BS (for most of them). And for those in danger, the warnings will not likely dissuade them for long. It's in the nature of young people to test the warnings.
Often it's genetic. And complex. And somewhat inexplicable.

How do they find out the warnings were BS for most of them, if some heed the warnings and don't start to drink? Shouldn't education on the facts be tried and see what happens? Why give up before any efforts are made?

 

[PureX]

How do they find out the warnings were BS for most of them, if some heed the warnings and don't start to drink?

Heeding the warnings does not equate to never touching alcohol. It WILL BE available. And they WILL TRY IT. And for most, it will not be the great problem that they were warned about.

Shouldn't education on the facts be tried and see what happens? Why give up before any efforts are made?

Education on the facts is fine. But the facts are that alcohol is not a problem for most people. And that demanding total abstinence socially is irrational and ineffective. Is this the education you are proposing?

 

[ecco]

How do they find out the warnings were BS for most of them, if some heed the warnings and don't start to drink? Shouldn't education on the facts be tried and see what happens? Why give up before any efforts are made?

Some do-gooders believed making and showing a film (Reefer Madness) would work.
Some do-gooders (Hearst) believed repeated newspaper articles damning marijuana and the evil Mexicans that spread it would work.
Some do-gooders (Nancy Regan) believed a cute catchphrase (Just Say No) would work.
Some do-gooders believed pictures would work...

This is your brain on drugs.



What kind of facts do you propose for your form of "education"?

Personally, I believe honesty is the best form of education...
Alcohol in moderation is OK. However, some of you may have inborn conditions making it impossible for you to use alcohol in moderation.

I could say the same kind of things about pot, mushrooms, cocaine etc, but there are RF rules against what may be interpreted as supporting illegal substances.