How? One is punishing a heinous criminal (and usually giving them better treatment than they've given their victims) and abortion is just taking an innocent life. Sure, there may be a justification in some instances, but that's what it is.
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Abortion and the death penalty
- Thread starter We Never Know
- Start date
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
I'm not changing opinions. I get what you're saying. Here's my wrap up.
1. I do not believe with abortion of any form
2. I understand justifications such as baby's health
3. I do not agree with rape as a justification (via other options I've mentioned)
4. I do not disagree with a woman's rights to choose
5. Thank god I've never been raped and would not want to be to change my opinion
6. This has to do with moral decisions not legal and medical
Whatever you disagree with is your opinion.
However, if you want to discuss for example some of your arguments such as
1. What the affects of a mother's trauma has on the baby in the womb because of disease spread:
I said, we don't know if there is a disease spread and doctors don't go off of possibilities before they do the mother's health, the baby, and psychological as well as legal consultation before such decisions are made.
2. I can't remember your other arguments.
The only thing I'm seeing is you're trying to get me to understand/convince me I am wrong.
I understand your opinion and
a. I do not see it that way and
b. my opinion has to do with morality not a woman's right to choose.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
I am pro life but I believe that there are exceptions and that it should be left to the consciences of those concerned, who must carefully weigh the medical advice in the light of the general guidance given in the teachings, IF they are a Baha'i. If not, then the following statement does not apply to them. I do not believe that pro lifers have the right to inflict their religious beliefs on other people.
Abortion merely to prevent the birth of an unwanted child is strictly forbidden in the Cause. There may, however, be instances in which an abortion would be justified by medical reasons, and legislation on this matter has been left to the Universal House of Justice. At the present time, however, the House of Justice does not intend to legislate on this very delicate issue, and therefore it is left to the consciences of those concerned who must carefully weigh the medical advice in the light of the general guidance given in the teachings.
Universal House of Justice, Lights of Guidance, p. 343
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Why not?
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
Christine, I broke it up for you...
so I can tell if you read it or not based by whether you choose to repeat your argument/opinion.
You can instead,
1. See it from my viewpoint without needing to change yours
2. Provide other arguments that back up what you're saying (appealing to ignorance doesn't help)
3. Leave it alone.
I only care about if other people understand what I say not changing their opinions.
Once I clarify it and they do not, I try not to repeat myself (which I'm trying to stop) or just drop it or forget about the debate altogether.
so I can tell if you read it or not based by whether you choose to repeat your argument/opinion.
You can instead,
1. See it from my viewpoint without needing to change yours
2. Provide other arguments that back up what you're saying (appealing to ignorance doesn't help)
3. Leave it alone.
I only care about if other people understand what I say not changing their opinions.
Once I clarify it and they do not, I try not to repeat myself (which I'm trying to stop) or just drop it or forget about the debate altogether.
it is down to a country's laws on abortion and the pregnant woman,with input from the father if available and medical advice. I just don't see why religion has anything to do with if unless that is the woman's choice
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
NICE!
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
It's clear. I understood it.
What else did you want me to do?
If your point is to change my opinion, you're out of luck.
If your point is to get me to understand, I said I already have.
Unless there is another perspective on this topic, we can either discuss it civilly or leave it alone.
Why say that, you jumped on my post, I didn't jump on yours, methinks your point was to change my opinion. But it past now, all gone.
Heyo
Veteran Member
Since this just got moved ...
Killing a person is killing a person. And killing a "heinous criminal" is premeditated and killing an unarmed and no longer dangerous person. It is no punishment as the person can't learn from the experience.
It can't be reversed if there was an error (and know that the justice system is erroneous).
It requires a person to make the decision to kill and multiple people to do the killing. Nobody should be put in such a situation, even if they'd enjoy it.
It is against the UDoHR.
Every civilized country has abolished capital punishment.
It is more expensive than life in prison.
The right to life was originally intended to be inalienable, even in the US (though it never made it into actionable law).
It doesn't work as a deterrent.
Need more reasons?
So, if you don't recognize a persons right to life, on what morality do you think a foetus should have a right to life?
A foetus isn't even a person.
A foetus is violating a woman's right to bodily autonomy.
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
No. You tend to jump on my post (which is normal on RF). It happens on many of our topics.
I think you have a stubborn side of you, from watching you talk to people and myself.... but hey! I get defensive sometimes.
But my question was originally, what did you want me to say?
My opinions won't change. I understand you. Now what?
I asked a simple question which you refused to answer but instead printed reams of irrelevant to the question fluff
Oh yes i can be stubborn, you looked in a mirror lately?
And there is the difference between stubborn me and stubborn you. Show me evidence that deserves consideration and i may need to change my mind based on the evidence. I don't think evidence has much influence for you... Am i right?
I've heard those reasons and they're not interesting to me. I do not care about what the UN says, what other countries do or even view the death penalty as a deterrent. Murder will exist as long as humans do, so of course it will never stop and the death penalty is not going to scare many.
I support the death penalty because some people (like Ted Bundy) are just evil, psychopathic monsters who live to cause suffering and their crimes against others are such that they deserve to be removed from the planet. I've seen many sick things, thanks to the freedom of the Internet. Depraved, graphic things. I can tell you that some people aren't quite what we'd call human and live to cause misery. Bundy, for instance, even escaped from jail just to brutally and savagely beat and murder some sleeping young college women.
Why keep them around? Why do they deserve to breath air and live and laugh when their victims can't? The same goes for those that commit horrible acts against animals, like the makers of "crush videos" (for the sake of your sanity, don't look it up), or people who instigate illegal wars, war criminals, people behind financial disasters, etc. - psychopaths, all of them. No reason to keep them around, especially when their offenses are so heinous. I believe in justice.
As for right to life, we are all born with it but we can lose it due to crimes we commit.
Oh, come off it. Pregnancy is just how humans reproduce. Women aren't being violated by their babies.
I'm not interested in vapid radical nonsense like that so spare me.Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
I answered all your questions related to the topic.
I understand your point of view.
I disagree that rape is a justification for abortion.
I just want to know if you get what I'm saying. I don't need to experience rape to understand what you're getting at, and I don't want to be rape just to have my opinions changed.
So, what did you want me to do or say?
Did you want me to change my opinions?
What?
Heyo
Veteran Member
So do I. But I wouldn't even want G.W. Bush, Dick Cheney or Scooter Libby dead. They deserve a nice cell but that's it.
And speaking of justice, they aren't even in a cell but people who have committed lesser crimes are on death row. Where is the justice now?
That's the difference between an inalienable right and a privilege. The second can be taken away.
When pregnancy is just a natural phenomenon, abortion is also. It happens naturally to about one third of all pregnancies. So it's no big deal if it is unnaturally induced.Oh, come off it. Pregnancy is just how humans reproduce. Women aren't being violated by their babies.
Okay, expand that to all death and see how far that logic takes you. "Hey, people die naturally, so it's okay to unnaturally induce it."
Eventually you answered my one question
You do? You say you do but i don't think you can understand the point of view you have no experience of
As i said, walk a mile in my shoes. I am not saying you should try it but i am saying you cannot have an objective opinion without. All you can do is make a your choice based on emotion.
And there lies the problem, you can not understand, without the experience you can not make an objective decision
You said what you wanted to say, i was content wiith that several posts ago.
Nope, but i would have liked you to be less closed minded,