Heyo
Veteran Member
Remember that I used a conditional. You just proved that pregnancy isn't just a benign condition of human reproduction.
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Abortion and the death penalty
- Thread starter We Never Know
- Start date
Yeah, it is. It's just how we reproduce. But sometimes things go very wrong and the baby doesn't survive in the womb. I've known women who miscarried. It's awful and very painful for them, emotionally. So you just saying that "well, it happens naturally so there's nothing wrong with artificially inducing it" is rather offensive.
About the death thing, I was making an analogy to your idea to that it's okay for us to end a pregnancy because of miscarriages. The idea that something is okay for us to do because it occurs in nature is a fallacy.
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
It's a gesture that means I understand where you coming from from a conversational perspective not an experiential one.
For example, if you had not had brain surgery like I have had, you can say you understand from a conversational or empathetic example but not a personal one.
I wouldn't want anyone to experience what I've gone through in childhood just so they can "get" what I'm saying. I rather them either a. not get it or b. understand it to the point of knowing they respect my point of view regardless how much it affected me.
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I can't have an opinion from personal experience. While if you happen to be in that unfortunate case, you wouldn't have a perspective of those who don't have that sort of personal attachment.
Our views are different. That doesn't invalidate my view any more than it does yours regardless what we have or have not gone through. This abortion topic I said this comes from my moral opinion.
Objectively, it would have to be the mother and doctor's decision to abort and the health and well-being of the mother and child.
In my opinion, you would not have an objective opinion about this topic. Which is Okay. I don't have an objective opinion of watching abuse, but that is okay. That does not invalidate our opinions.
But the topic is not for me to understand your experience.
The discussion is not about your experiences. It's just about the legal, moral, and/or medical questions on whether or not abortion is justified based on things like rape, child/mother's health, and other reasons.
You're taking this personally based on your personal experiences. Either you can try to understand other people's point of view or try not to talk about things that may upset you.
Heyo
Veteran Member
So we do agree? Just because something is natural (like a pregnancy) doesn't make it OK or benign?
What? No. That has nothing to do with what I said. Apparently you have no idea what I'm saying.
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
Christine, let's do this. I won't discuss the conversation of abortion and rape with you because I don't know you well enough-triggers, and so forth-to know if I'm just discussing the topic casually or am I triggering something that's provoking this emotional response.
Either or, just respect my opinion and let it be. It's not worth it.
Either or, just respect my opinion and let it be. It's not worth it.
Heyo
Veteran Member
The misunderstanding seems to be mutual. All I wanted to explain to you was that you can't casually push pregnancy aside by naming it "just" how we reproduce. Your appeal to nature fails - and you just explained it yourself.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
It is not premeditated as are murders that carry the death sentence, it is planned in order to carry out justice.
What makes you think that murderer is going to learn anything by going to prison?
Why do you believe that murderer deserves a second chance? Did he/she give the victim a second chance?
We were talking about if there was no chance of an error
"The death penalty I support if there is scientific, forensic and DNA evidence that shows no doubt."
If its only circumstantial and/or questionable evidence then I don't support it.
We all have free will so it's their choice if they want to participate. Nobody is holding a gun to their head as the murderer did when he/she blew an innocent victim's brains out.
There are political reasons for doing so. That is no criteria for deciding what is morally right or wrong.
Think about WHY it is more expensive.
It should be less expensive and it would be if there were not so many ridiculous appeals.. Did the victims of the heinous murder get any appeals? An eye for an eye, if the evidence is incontrovertible. Besides, this physical life is not the end of life, as life continues on the other side, so it is only the end of a physical life. All of us will die physically someday.
No, because most murderers know they can usually plea bargain and get life in prison.
A fetus is a person from the moment of conception because that is when human life begins.
A Scientific View of When Life Begins
The conclusion that human life begins at sperm-egg fusion is uncontested, objective, based on the universally accepted scientific method of distinguishing different cell types from each other and on ample scientific evidence (thousands of independent, peer-reviewed publications). Moreover, it is entirely independent of any specific ethical, moral, political, or religious view of human life or of human embryos. Indeed, this definition does not directly address the central ethical question surrounding the embryo: What value ought society place on human life at the earliest stages of development? A neutral examination of the evidence merely establishes the onset of a new human life at a scientifically well-defined “moment of conception,” a conclusion that unequivocally indicates that human embryos from the one-cell stage forward are indeed living individuals of the human species; i.e., human beings.
The soul comes into being at the moment of conception, and the soul is the person, whereas the body is just a vehicle that allows the soul to function.
Regarding the "right to life" the one hundred million dollar difference is that the unborn child us completely innocent whereas the murderer is completely guilty.
And killing the fetus is denying its right to life.
Rape and Incest: Just 1% of All Abortions
There is always some risk of getting pregnant although that can be greatly mitigated by proper birth control.
Otherwise, if you cannot do the time then don't do the crime. That is how I see it.
Sorry it is "inconvenient" to carry a child to term for a few months of a woman's life, but she should have thought of all the things on this list below before she chose to have sex, not after.
Why women have abortions
In a 2004 survey of 957 women having an abortion, one in four said their most important reason for having the procedure was that they weren't ready for a child or the timing was wrong.
Not ready for a(nother) child/Timing is wrong 25%
Can’t afford a baby now 23%
Have completed my childbearing/Have other people depending on me/Children are grown 19%
Don’t want to be a single mother or am having relationship problems 8%
Don’t feel mature enough to raise a(nother) child/Feel too young 7%
Would interfere with education or career plans 4%
Physical problem with my health 4%
Who are the 1 in 4 American women who choose abortion?
It is how we reproduce. If the is woman healthy and all is normal, it is a benign thing. You are the one is who very bizarrely making it sound like some insidious thing. Do you not want to be here or something? Because that's how you got here. Do you apologize to your mother for your existence?
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Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Then she should of thought of that BEFORE she hopped into bed.
Rape and Incest: Just 1% of All Abortions
I’m sorry if I implied it wasn’t also a religious belief.
But doesn’t the Bible (OT) have instructions on abortion as a consequence of cheating? I’m not up on my scripture but I could have sworn there was a passage wherein a woman is given a special concoction and if her fetus doesn’t die it basically means she was innocent. Ehh maybe I’m mixing up my scriptures
That's from the Old Testament. I'm not sure what that was about, really, so I can't comment on it. But Christianity was very clear about it from the beginning.
VoidCat
Use any and all pronouns including neo and it/it's
It is...Dont remember what verse tho...
VoidCat
Use any and all pronouns including neo and it/it's
@SomeRandom Numbers chapter 5
Aren’t the 10 commandments also from the OT?
I know Christians don’t really follow the OT since they’re....well Christians. Just always seems a tad convenient to deny some OT passages but seemingly follow others. But that’s not really any of my business I suppose
No, the 10 Commandments are in Christianity. That's just basic moral teachings common to the Abrahamic faiths.
I don’t care if it’s 0.000001 percent. Percentages don’t factor into my position on abortion. Now what?Then she should of thought of that BEFORE she hopped into bed.
Rape and Incest: Just 1% of All Abortions
I thought it came to Moses who is a figure in the OT. There are even movies about it. Good movies too