Abortion and the death penalty

[SomeRandom]

Ten Commandments - Wikipedia

Darn. Hollywood lied to me again!!

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Darn. Hollywood lied to me again!!

Did you hit your head? You should know not to trust them for accuracy.

 

[SomeRandom]

Did you hit your head? You should know not to trust them for accuracy.

Ahh you’re right. I’m gonna blame the booze lol

 

[Trailblazer]

I don’t care if it’s 0.000001 percent. Percentages don’t factor into my position on abortion. Now what?

You keep your position and I keep mine, and never the twain shall meet.

 

[SomeRandom]

You keep your position and I keep mine, and never the twain shall meet.

Fair enough

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Then she should of thought of that BEFORE she hopped into bed.

Rape and Incest: Just 1% of All Abortions

Wait. Rape is unintentional, so she couldn't have thought of it before she hopped into bed.

Incest just increases the risk of the baby having medical conditions. People don't care for it on a moral standpoint, but on a medical one I wouldn't say that-alone-is a justification for abortion either.

 

[SomeRandom]

Wait. Rape is unintentional, so she couldn't have thought of it before she hopped into bed.

Incest just increases the risk of the baby having medical conditions. People don't care for it on a moral standpoint, but on a medical one I wouldn't say that-alone-is a justification for abortion either.

I would. But then again I grew up in a hospital. The suffering I saw in the natal ward. Geez. Enough to turn me into a staunch pro choicer anyway.

 

[Trailblazer]

Wait. Rape is unintentional, so she couldn't have thought of it before she hopped into bed.

I was not referring to cases is rape. 99% of abortions are not because of rape or incest, they are because people chose to have sex..

Rape and Incest: Just 1% of All Abortions

Incest just increases the risk of the baby having medical conditions. People don't care for it on a moral standpoint, but on a medical one I wouldn't say that-alone-is a justification for abortion either.

No, not that alone.

 

[Sand Dancer]

I support abortion if the girl got pregnant by rape, incest, molestation, or is under age(17 and less).
I don't support it for adults who go sleep around without protection like its a contest and should know better.

The death penalty I support if there is scientific, forensic and DNA evidence that shows no doubt.
If its only circumstantial and/or questionable evidence then I don't support it.

You?

I support first trimester abortion for any reason and second trimester for the health of mom/baby. I am mostly against the death penalty.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Abortion is an emotional topic. It is almost impossible to discuss it rationally. And abortions are going to happen regardless of the law.

I support first trimester abortion for any reason and second trimester for the health of mom/baby. I am mostly against the death penalty.

Third trimester abortions are very rare, but still need to be legal. They are rare because of their high expense and women by that point almost always want the baby. But there can be issues for either the mother or the fetus that makes them necessary.

 

[Heyo]

I support first trimester abortion for any reason and second trimester for the health of mom/baby. I am mostly against the death penalty.

Mostly?

 

[Heyo]

It is how we reproduce. If the is woman healthy and all is normal, it is a benign thing. You are the one is who very bizarrely making it sound like some insidious thing. Do you not want to be here or something? Because that's how you got here. Do you apologize to your mother for your existence?

Insidious? How so? But it also isn't the sniffles, where you ponder if you'd go to the doctor or just wait 'till it's over. Having a child or not is an important decision.
By trivializing the decision to bear a child you also trivialize the decision to end a pregnancy - as I already tried to explain in #58.

 

[Heyo]

It is not premeditated as are murders that carry the death sentence, it is planned in order to carry out justice.

Look up "premeditated" in a thesaurus.

What makes you think that murderer is going to learn anything by going to prison?

What do you think is the reason for punishment?
And how is punishment different from revenge?

Why do you believe that murderer deserves a second chance? Did he/she give the victim a second chance?

We were talking about if there was no chance of an error
"The death penalty I support if there is scientific, forensic and DNA evidence that shows no doubt."

Who is to decide if there is no doubt? Isn't it already supposed to be so that a person has to be guilty beyond reasonable doubt? Did that prevent wrongful convictions?

If its only circumstantial and/or questionable evidence then I don't support it.

OK, so we agree. Our difference is only in the question if a jury is capable of deciding what constitutes 100% undoubtable evidence.
Oh, and if it is OK to kill people in general.

We all have free will so it's their choice if they want to participate. Nobody is holding a gun to their head as the murderer did when he/she blew an innocent victim's brains out.

There are political reasons for doing so. That is no criteria for deciding what is morally right or wrong.

Think about WHY it is more expensive.
It should be less expensive and it would be if there were not so many ridiculous appeals.. Did the victims of the heinous murder get any appeals? An eye for an eye, if the evidence is incontrovertible. Besides, this physical life is not the end of life, as life continues on the other side, so it is only the end of a physical life.

Your religious beliefs are no objective arguments. Please keep them out of a discussion of jurisprudence.

All of us will die physically someday.

No, because most murderers know they can usually plea bargain and get life in prison.

A fetus is a person from the moment of conception because that is when human life begins.

A Scientific View of When Life Begins

You mistake life for personhood. There is no discussion if a foetus is alive.
Personhood is not a scientific question, it is a legal construct. Personhood begins at birth, by legal definition.

The conclusion that human life begins at sperm-egg fusion is uncontested, objective, based on the universally accepted scientific method of distinguishing different cell types from each other and on ample scientific evidence (thousands of independent, peer-reviewed publications). Moreover, it is entirely independent of any specific ethical, moral, political, or religious view of human life or of human embryos. Indeed, this definition does not directly address the central ethical question surrounding the embryo: What value ought society place on human life at the earliest stages of development? A neutral examination of the evidence merely establishes the onset of a new human life at a scientifically well-defined “moment of conception,” a conclusion that unequivocally indicates that human embryos from the one-cell stage forward are indeed living individuals of the human species; i.e., human beings.

The soul comes into being at the moment of conception, and the soul is the person, whereas the body is just a vehicle that allows the soul to function.

Again, personhood is legal, not scientific - or religious.

Regarding the "right to life" the one hundred million dollar difference is that the unborn child us completely innocent whereas the murderer is completely guilty.

And killing the fetus is denying its right to life.

Rape and Incest: Just 1% of All Abortions

There is always some risk of getting pregnant although that can be greatly mitigated by proper birth control.
Otherwise, if you cannot do the time then don't do the crime. That is how I see it.

Sorry it is "inconvenient" to carry a child to term for a few months of a woman's life, but she should have thought of all the things on this list below before she chose to have sex, not after.

Why women have abortions

In a 2004 survey of 957 women having an abortion, one in four said their most important reason for having the procedure was that they weren't ready for a child or the timing was wrong.

Not ready for a(nother) child/Timing is wrong 25%
Can’t afford a baby now 23%
Have completed my childbearing/Have other people depending on me/Children are grown 19%
Don’t want to be a single mother or am having relationship problems 8%
Don’t feel mature enough to raise a(nother) child/Feel too young 7%
Would interfere with education or career plans 4%
Physical problem with my health 4%

Who are the 1 in 4 American women who choose abortion?

Where are the numbers for "haven't had comprehensible sex ed" and "used contraception but it didn't work"?

 

[Trailblazer]

Look up "premeditated" in a thesaurus.

What is considered premeditated?

premeditation. n. planning, plotting or deliberating before doing something. Premeditation is an element in first degree murder and shows intent to commit that crime.

Legal Dictionary | Law.com

What do you think is the reason for punishment?
And how is punishment different from revenge?

The reason for the punishment is because justice is very important. Why do you think they are making such a big deal about the George Floyd case?

The difference between revenge and punishment is that individuals do not have the right to take revenge, because revenge is despised in the eyes of God, so the motive for punishment should never be vengeance, but rather the imposition of the appropriate a penalty for the committed offense. Also, it is the right of society to impose punishments on criminals for the purpose of protecting its members.

Who is to decide if there is no doubt? Isn't it already supposed to be so that a person has to be guilty beyond reasonable doubt? Did that prevent wrongful convictions?

OK, so we agree. Our difference is only in the question if a jury is capable of deciding what constitutes 100% undoubtable evidence.

We are talking about cases where there is no doubt, cases where the evidence is incontrovertible. There are many such cases.

You mistake life for personhood. There is no discussion if a foetus is alive.
Personhood is not a scientific question, it is a legal construct. Personhood begins at birth, by legal definition.

The soul begins at conception, and the soul is a person by a religious definition.

Where are the numbers for "haven't had comprehensible sex ed" and "used contraception but it didn't work"?

There is nobody who does not know that sex can lead to pregnancy. If you don’t want to take any chances, don’t have sex.
Abortion should not be used as birth control, but that is what it has come to in this corrupt society.

 

[Mock Turtle]

I've heard those reasons and they're not interesting to me. I do not care about what the UN says, what other countries do or even view the death penalty as a deterrent. Murder will exist as long as humans do, so of course it will never stop and the death penalty is not going to scare many.

I support the death penalty because some people (like Ted Bundy) are just evil, psychopathic monsters who live to cause suffering and their crimes against others are such that they deserve to be removed from the planet. I've seen many sick things, thanks to the freedom of the Internet. Depraved, graphic things. I can tell you that some people aren't quite what we'd call human and live to cause misery. Bundy, for instance, even escaped from jail just to brutally and savagely beat and murder some sleeping young college women.

Why keep them around? Why do they deserve to breath air and live and laugh when their victims can't? The same goes for those that commit horrible acts against animals, like the makers of "crush videos" (for the sake of your sanity, don't look it up), or people who instigate illegal wars, war criminals, people behind financial disasters, etc. - psychopaths, all of them. No reason to keep them around, especially when their offenses are so heinous. I believe in justice.

Do you not think we should act so as to set an example, and where behaving as barbaric as any criminal we are just being vengeful? And perhaps you also support spanking and smacking of children too, where the same situation applies - the parents setting a bad example to any children and exercising their power over those with less - just as your justice (or really revenge) system seemingly would. I'm sure many of us detest those who do the worst crimes but simply ending their lives is too simplistic, and as pointed out by many, prone to errors of guilt all too often.

 

[ChristineM]

Christine, let's do this. I won't discuss the conversation of abortion and rape with you because I don't know you well enough-triggers, and so forth-to know if I'm just discussing the topic casually or am I triggering something that's provoking this emotional response.

Either or, just respect my opinion and let it be. It's not worth it.

I think i said similar about 20 posts ago, not necessarily for the same reason but with the same conclusion

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Insidious? How so? But it also isn't the sniffles, where you ponder if you'd go to the doctor or just wait 'till it's over. Having a child or not is an important decision.
By trivializing the decision to bear a child you also trivialize the decision to end a pregnancy - as I already tried to explain in #58.

Trivialized? No one said pregnancy is a walk in the park. Of course bringing a child into the world is a very serious matter. I just reject the efforts of some to make pregnancy sound like it's a disease or illness, and abortion is the cure. It's bizarre and disturbing rhetoric.

 

[Trailblazer]

Do you not think we should act so as to set an example, and where behaving as barbaric as any criminal we are just being revengeful? And perhaps you also support spanking and smacking of children too, where the same situation applies - the parents setting a bad example to any children and exercising their power over those with less - just as your justice (or really revenge) system seemingly would. I'm sure many of us detest those who do the worst crimes but simply ending their lives is too simplistic, and as pointed out by many, prone to errors of guilt all too often.

Justice is not revenge. Why do people assume it is?

 

[McBell]

Justice is not revenge. Why do people assume it is?

Really?
What exactly is the difference between justice and revenge?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Do you not think we should act so as to set an example, and where behaving as barbaric as any criminal we are just being revengeful? And perhaps you also support spanking and smacking of children too, where the same situation applies - the parents setting a bad example to any children and exercising their power over those with less - just as your justice (or really revenge) system seemingly would. I'm sure many of us detest those who do the worst crimes but simply ending their lives is too simplistic, and as pointed out by many, prone to errors of guilt all too often.

Who is advocating "behaving as badly as any criminal"? Certainly not I. Do you know how we execute people in the US? We put them to sleep like we do pets at the vet! How is that "barbaric"? Again, what is the point of keeping people like Ted Bundy around? That's not justice. Some people are just monsters and should be removed from the world. You're not going to change my mind about that as I've seen too much and have always supported capital punishment, anyway. If you go out of your way to cause misery and suffering, torture people/animals, murder, rape, destroy societies, you have forfeited your right to breath air. You cannot rehabilitate those people. The State has the responsibility for protecting society and delivering justice. Executing extreme criminals is hardly outside of that. Life in a US prison is far worse, believe me. I'd rather be executed than live my life in jail, so my position is ironically more compassionate than the anti-death penalty people. I do not support torturing people.

Has nothing to do with revenge, either. That would cause chaos, with everyone getting back at those who have wrong them. That's not how the justice system is set up, either. Everyone at least in theory has the right to a fair trial and representation.

No, I don't support hitting kids. I was beaten as a child and I know what that's like. If you can't assault an adult, you shouldn't be able to assault a child.